Project-GC Forum - Challenge checker exceptions Not all Geocaches are clear if they are a Challenge or not. Therefore Project-GC has built a Challenge Exception-system. A part of the community has been granted access to this system, and they read through cache description to add votes if they believe these Geocaches are Challenges or not. In here, they can discuss extreme cases and see if they can come to an agreement. https://project-gc.com/forum/list?12 Mon, 25 May 2026 13:09:40 +0000 Phorum 5.2.23 https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,108566,108566#msg-108566 The Choose Your Own Challenge Challenge (Auckland) GC3MR7K https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,108566,108566#msg-108566 I know the CO so messaged him about this and his reply was - this is not a challenge cache
He put
It is, in fact not a challenge cache. Challenge caches must have a
specific challenge which must conform to certain rules that were in place
at the time - not the same strict criteria in place today, but still rules
applied by the reviewer.

So what it really is is a "bluff" puzzle cache where the final coordinates
are actually the same as published. Choosing and completing a challenge is
optional and non-enforcable.

There is a sentence saying this within the description - though I have said to him it is easily overlooked and to many this will be seen as a challenge cache.

**Update** upon further discussion the CO has said
"In its current form, cachers treat it as a challenge and that's cool. I guess I'd expect they'd want it to be counted in their stats as a challenge.

However - Officially it's not a challenge cache in Groundspeak's eyes, because the challenge is variable and up to the individual, and also it is not enforceable, The reviewer would not allow it as a challenge at the time of publication and yes the requirement could have been seen to be an ALR - however it was published and has remained ever since. How it is voted on within the exception list will be down to the folk at PGC"

So although this isn't a challenge cache in the COs eyes - the moderators will have to make their own mind up as to whether this is a challenge cache or not.
Noting - there isn't a specific challenge set as criteria for this cache and there is NO requirement to actually set a challenge - finding and signing is all that is required.
For those that do set their own challenge, it can range from 'find a cache' to 'find a cache every day for the next 5 years'
The CO has no issue with whether this ends being voted up or down]]> Deepdiggingmole Challenge checker exceptions Fri, 15 Aug 2025 11:41:54 +0000 https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,64031,106567#msg-106567 Re: Show those where I have voted against the crowd https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,64031,106567#msg-106567 Pleu Challenge checker exceptions Sat, 12 Jul 2025 17:19:09 +0000 https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,64031,106566#msg-106566 Re: Show those where I have voted against the crowd https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,64031,106566#msg-106566 Deepdiggingmole Challenge checker exceptions Sat, 12 Jul 2025 17:13:09 +0000 https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,64031,106565#msg-106565 Re: Show those where I have voted against the crowd https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,64031,106565#msg-106565 Pleu Challenge checker exceptions Sat, 12 Jul 2025 17:08:06 +0000 https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,64031,106563#msg-106563 Re: Show those where I have voted against the crowd https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,64031,106563#msg-106563
by mistake - as it didn't fulfil challenge cache criteria - and the reviewer acknowledged that and so quickly archived it

The fact that the instructions from Project-GC is to not make a judgement about if the cache follows the challenge guidelines or not, only if it's a challenge or not - could potentially mean that some caches that have a task written within the description but are not challenges end up being listed in cachers challenge cache tab

Another example of a cache which started as a challenge but that changed - GC740G6 has a task written within the description and yet was fully downvoted. Why ? because it was shown to be a puzzle - it had challenge cache criteria initially (its all got quite confusing tbh)
However based on "The instructions from Project-GC is to not make a judgement about if the cache follows the challenge guidelines or not" this should have been upvoted - it wasn't because folk saw that it was a challenge cache]]> Deepdiggingmole Challenge checker exceptions Sat, 12 Jul 2025 16:50:06 +0000 https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,53168,106560#msg-106560 Re: GC2P995 - Alien Invasion Adventure Challenge https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,53168,106560#msg-106560 I am bringing this to the front again as I occasionally look at those exceptions which go against the vote flow
Though there are a few upvotes there are more downvotes
It was shown that this cache does comply with all the challenge cache requirements - and in particular criteria for qualifying now seen on the cache page (it was hidden in a .pdf before - which was probably the reason many downvoted it)
Though this cache is now archived - the level of down votes means that this challenge cache does not appear in the challenge cache stats on cachers profiles (for those cachers who have found this one) as it has been excluded due to the votes.
I have no affiliation to this cache - but do feel that this challenge cache has been incorrectly voted as not being one
Can moderators look at this again and consider their decision]]> Deepdiggingmole Challenge checker exceptions Sat, 12 Jul 2025 15:53:00 +0000 https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,82641,82641#msg-82641 Merry Christmas https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,82641,82641#msg-82641 a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year

Let 2024 be a great year moderating :-)

ddm]]> Deepdiggingmole Challenge checker exceptions Fri, 22 Dec 2023 23:41:12 +0000 https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,80891,81936#msg-81936 Re: Top voters counts https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,80891,81936#msg-81936 Next day I check and can't find it - it no longer exists - the cache was completely erased not just archived (I think this is also what happened to one that Pleu voted on)
As stated earlier though - the upvoted and downvoted challenges total = 1286 (also my vote count)
Though only 1284 are now showing on the list - so there are two caches that it would seem I have voted on that have in fact been erased and not just archived (similar to Pleu)
and so it would seem this would answer the original OP as to that anomaly
Tim]]> Deepdiggingmole Challenge checker exceptions Mon, 04 Dec 2023 16:22:21 +0000 https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,80891,81087#msg-81087 Re: Top voters counts https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,80891,81087#msg-81087 Added challenges: 863
Removed challenges: 419

Now (with one cache added to the page) I get:
Added challenges: 865
Removed challenges: 419

So last time I loaded the page, the totals matched with my total. Now there are more between these two counts than I've had an opportunity to vote on.]]> sumbloke Challenge checker exceptions Mon, 20 Nov 2023 05:40:04 +0000 https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,80891,81066#msg-81066 Re: Top voters counts https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,80891,81066#msg-81066 -------------------------------------------------------
> I don't see a point in "fixing" something that's
> basically a legacy tool or to fix anything that
> ain't broken. It works as intended, it isn't an
> issue, dev-time is better spent else where.

We all have opinions - which I respect and I understand where you are coming from
I didn't say anything was 'broken' - but was simply pointing out that it seems evident there maybe moderators who are no longer involved in caching and similarly no longer moderating so the list is being voted on by less than there used to be - possibly that lower number maybe sufficient and that is fine.
However I go back to an earlier comment - There are caches in this list, I feel that have being wrongly voted - an example GC2P995 - Alien Invasion Adventure Challenge
This was downvoted by many because, originally there was nothing in the description and so considered not a challenge (it turned out the criteria was found in a link) - I was aware the CO queried this and when it was explained he updated the cache page with the criteria
This was posted in this forum, in the hope that the vote would change. It did not - It remains that this cache has more downvotes than upvotes
Why is this - are the contents of this forum not read by all the active moderators or is it because they are no longer involved in the game ?
Surely the purpose of this forum is to discuss those borderline caches that appear on the exception list - in fact isnt this the sole purpose of this forum.
Yes, those borderline instances are few and far between - but for those challenge cache COs and also challenge cache seekers - not having caches appear on your lists because we, the moderators, have downvoted them - and not amending our votes when evidently a vote change is needed does suggest a more active team of moderators may be needed]]> Deepdiggingmole Challenge checker exceptions Sun, 19 Nov 2023 19:26:36 +0000 https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,80891,81065#msg-81065 Re: Top voters counts https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,80891,81065#msg-81065 Pleu Challenge checker exceptions Sun, 19 Nov 2023 19:04:10 +0000 https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,80891,80969#msg-80969 Re: Top voters counts https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,80891,80969#msg-80969 That's your interpretation of the data. It's just a guess from you that these people have stopped geocaching. You have no real evidence of this being the situation.
Yes - I didn't say I knew these were the facts or would I be so arrogant to say they were - it was a suggestion behind why many of the caches havent been voted on as much as others - I wasn't referring to those who do vote periodically (that is your interpretation of what I have said and it was wrong!)
but if a few of the moderators have stopped visiting the site completely and so not voting and unlikely to continue to do so, why not replace them ?

I am not making up any rules, or suggesting that it be a rule - just making a suggestion for moving forward]]> Deepdiggingmole Challenge checker exceptions Sat, 18 Nov 2023 14:23:32 +0000 https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,80891,80967#msg-80967 Re: Top voters counts https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,80891,80967#msg-80967
An other guess could be that not everybody checks this tool daily/weekly/monthly or however often you check it. There's no harm in having people on the moderator team that aren't voting weekly since they could still log in and vote for example when they get an email about a case that's dividing the mods. This would still be helpful and they would still be needed.

Also there's no rule that says you have to vote on everything or you're kicked of the team, so you making up these rules for a tool that isn't yours is just weird.]]> Pleu Challenge checker exceptions Sat, 18 Nov 2023 13:04:57 +0000 https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,80891,80966#msg-80966 Re: Top voters counts https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,80891,80966#msg-80966 It is evident from this forum that very few of the moderators take part in discussion or possibly ever read anything in this forum and this can affect the outcome of a challenge cache status
As an example when there was a cache that was definitely a challenge but because of how it was laid out on the cache page it was considered it wasn't as it wasn't very obvious, so many downvoted it - the layout changed and the criteria became clearer and that it was a challenge, so a post was added to advise moderators - however the voting didn't change - so it remained as voted not to be a challenge and thus not appearing on cachers challenge tabs - this frustrated the CO but that was out of his hands - Not all voted on that (like many other caches) and that does mean for those caches that do divide opinion the number of votes and the discussion around it are important - if many of the moderators are no longer involved, the obvious ones will still get up voted or downvoted accordingly by those that do vote but it will mean those borderline decisions are affected.

as well as the numbers of moderators not voting this is probably more a question mark over the forum and how useful it is but if most of the moderators aren't using it for the purpose it is intended or voting as per the function of being a moderator then why not have a refresh ?]]> Deepdiggingmole Challenge checker exceptions Sat, 18 Nov 2023 12:56:49 +0000 https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,80891,80965#msg-80965 Re: Top voters counts https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,80891,80965#msg-80965 Pleu Challenge checker exceptions Sat, 18 Nov 2023 12:50:13 +0000 https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,80891,80964#msg-80964 Re: Top voters counts https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,80891,80964#msg-80964 I guess as with all things geocaching several moderators, who are cachers, may have stopped playing the game and so have stopped being involved in moderating too.

I appreciated when there was a hiatus with moderating that it was considered it may all be OK when the new attribute came in - however that has shown that moderation was still needed - so maybe if the 'powers that be' could review who is active and who is not and have a refresh of the 'team' removing inactive members and adding some new active ones

Though I acknowledge this doesnt answer the OP :-)]]> Deepdiggingmole Challenge checker exceptions Sat, 18 Nov 2023 12:46:20 +0000 https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,80891,80963#msg-80963 Re: Top voters counts https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,80891,80963#msg-80963 Where is the number 1282 coming from?

If you add up all the caches that are listed on the page (yes, I did it - though handy using excel)
it does show only 1282
So for me, curious to know where #1283 went - though I know (as I said) where your #1284 went :-)]]> Deepdiggingmole Challenge checker exceptions Sat, 18 Nov 2023 12:29:22 +0000 https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,80891,80961#msg-80961 Re: Top voters counts https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,80891,80961#msg-80961
It's also easy to see that not every mod have voted on every challenge based on the statistics: With 13262 upvotes and 5189 downvotes that gives a total of 18451 votes, spread across the 1282 (?) challenges on the list that would mean there's 14,39 moderators but since there's a challenge with 36 votes the obvious conclusion would be that at least 36 accounts have at some point been able to vote in the system. (I know of one account that have been removed, not sure if their votes still count or not.)]]> Pleu Challenge checker exceptions Sat, 18 Nov 2023 11:40:57 +0000 https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,80891,80949#msg-80949 Re: Top voters counts https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,80891,80949#msg-80949 or are they all missing a bunch that were on the list

@Sumbloke - what numbers do you get in the stats box for Added challenges and Removed challenges]]> Deepdiggingmole Challenge checker exceptions Sat, 18 Nov 2023 00:47:36 +0000 https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,80891,80948#msg-80948 Re: Top voters counts https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,80891,80948#msg-80948 Added challenges: 864
Removed challenges: 419
which totals 1283
my votes 1283

I cant say why others haven't got as much as the total challenges that were voted on - but obviously my figures match what has been added on to the list
I was aware of the one that Pleu voted on that got removed and it was retracted before anyone else was able to vote
Other than that if there are differences I don't know how this has come about - I have certainly only voted on what has been listed/added
Though I now see that there are only 1282 listed on that page I can't answer why I have an additional one - maybe I voted on one that got retracted too but was unaware of that]]> Deepdiggingmole Challenge checker exceptions Sat, 18 Nov 2023 00:38:34 +0000 https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,80891,80909#msg-80909 Re: Top voters counts https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,80891,80909#msg-80909 Pleu Challenge checker exceptions Fri, 17 Nov 2023 10:32:34 +0000 https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,80891,80891#msg-80891 Top voters counts https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,80891,80891#msg-80891
How have people voted on more caches than are available for voting on?]]> sumbloke Challenge checker exceptions Fri, 17 Nov 2023 00:29:54 +0000 https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,80235,80333#msg-80333 Re: GC2J43P https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,80235,80333#msg-80333 A bonus cache is one where you need to have found specific caches to find out where the cache is (akin to a multi-cache).
A challenge cache is one where finding other caches is a prerequisite to claiming a find (akin to a Traditional cache, although some grandfathered ones have puzzles as well).]]> sumbloke Challenge checker exceptions Tue, 07 Nov 2023 02:30:51 +0000 https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,80235,80246#msg-80246 Re: GC2J43P https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,80235,80246#msg-80246
The way the description is written implies to me that the CO will delete non-qualifying logs. I believe that they are allowed to do this, since it is pre-moratorium.

(That said, I believe that the CO has passed away, so it's unlikely to be policed.)

Quote

but how is that different to any bonus cache where you have to find all the caches in a trail / series (in some cases not all but many of) in order to get info and then get the bonus cache

With a series, one could receive coordinates from a friend. In this case, there is a set of criteria/logging requirements that can be enforced; to have found 201 specific caches.]]> Hügh Challenge checker exceptions Sat, 04 Nov 2023 00:40:50 +0000 https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,80235,80235#msg-80235 GC2J43P https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,80235,80235#msg-80235 A final for completing a linked series of caches
It might have the word challenge in the description but that is because it is a 63 km trail
However is a cache placed for completing a linked series a challenge cache or a bonus cache ?

Some will say - yes, but there is a set of criteria - find all 201 caches in the series
but how is that different to any bonus cache where you have to find all the caches in a trail / series (in some cases not all but many of) in order to get info and then get the bonus cache - in this instance you just don't have to gather any clues]]> Deepdiggingmole Challenge checker exceptions Fri, 03 Nov 2023 20:19:35 +0000 https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,75992,76153#msg-76153 Re: Checker exception confidence score https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,75992,76153#msg-76153 A confidence score - to me simply implies that a proportion of voters have voted one way and that is higher than the proportion who have voted the other (which way is irrelevant as we know some that go on the list are challenges and some are not)
The less than 35% suggests the vote is close and a decision can not be made either way

The example (now shows even lower at 32%) started off as a challenge and so presumably will have to remain that way - much the same that a cache that ended up on the list was not a challenge

That said I would have thought the simpler way would have been majority wins (just a thought :-)]]> Deepdiggingmole Challenge checker exceptions Sat, 22 Jul 2023 18:13:39 +0000 https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,75992,76152#msg-76152 Re: Checker exception confidence score https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,75992,76152#msg-76152 "Only geocaches with a confidence score of at least 35% will be be considered as an exception. Three homogeneous votes should be enough for that, while for example 3 up-votes and 1 down-vote won't." I don't understand how you come to the conclusion that 34 up-votes should equal 100%? If 3 up-votes and 0 down-votes equals 35% my conclusion is that the % is not based on how many have voted on the cache but it's a calculated score using an algorithm that happens to use the % as it's unit. To me it sounds like it might be impossible to actually get 100%.]]> Pleu Challenge checker exceptions Sat, 22 Jul 2023 17:58:32 +0000 https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,75992,76150#msg-76150 Re: Checker exception confidence score https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,75992,76150#msg-76150 If you hoover on the number the tooltip shows how many votes there are of each kind.

learn something new each day - didn't know that

The 90%/+34 cache has 34 up-votes and 0 down-votes - irrespective of how it was added the numbers would suggest this should be 100% (as with many of the very obvious ones)

Also - hovering over a few of those it does show how some have had 30+ votes and some far less than that]]> Deepdiggingmole Challenge checker exceptions Sat, 22 Jul 2023 17:32:23 +0000 https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,75992,76149#msg-76149 Re: Checker exception confidence score https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,75992,76149#msg-76149
The 90%/+34 cache has 34 up-votes and 0 down-votes so it suggest 34 moderatos have voted on that. I would assume the 90% is because it was probably added as a "not a challenge" and I would guess it therefor starts of at a negative score.

The "Challenge of the century" have 9 up-votes and 10 down-votes so the "difference of 3" is not it. I agree that it looks odd that it's showing up in the tab though. Could be a bug?]]> Pleu Challenge checker exceptions Sat, 22 Jul 2023 17:17:10 +0000 https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,75992,76145#msg-76145 Re: Checker exception confidence score https://project-gc.com/forum/read?12,75992,76145#msg-76145 I didn't think a specific number of votes specified a threshold or that three was the required gap
I am not sure how many moderators there are though the bottom of that list suggests there are at least 34
Another query with that is that I would suspect that with GC7AJN2 - Mo Farah 10,000 Metres challenge cache which shows 34 up votes that there at least 34 voting moderators - I doubt there is a down vote (I would be surprised there is) but the %age is only 90 - does that suggest there is a downvote (or 3)
Is this linked to how many moderators there are and some haven't voted ??

However my main query was it is evident with the original example that the threshhold hasnt been met - does that mean it isnt clear either way and so no action is taken with regard to declaring it IS or ISNT a challenge cache and so remains as one]]> Deepdiggingmole Challenge checker exceptions Sat, 22 Jul 2023 11:25:21 +0000