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Re: GC91D9H; average D + average T = 5 or greater

[Cancelled] GC91D9H; average D + average T = 5 or greater
November 26, 2020 08:10AM
Hi again, checker writing wizards..

Request a checker for GC91D9H “The Dee + Tee = Five Challenge”;

The Average Difficulty rating PLUS the Average Terrain rating, which is located on each geocacher’s statistics page, must equal FIVE (5) or more.

You also must have a minimum of 555 finds.

For example, we (team novo) are currently over 1200 finds, our Average Difficulty is 2.67 and our Average Terrain is 2.7 …so our score will be 5.37

It would be great if the script out could please look like the following:

Total Finds: 1162
Average Difficulty: 2.65
Average Terrain: 2.68
Average Total: 5.33


(There is a similar challenge I have found which has a very similar script it is GC80KDJ, FYI)

Thank you very much in advance!

Novo
Re: GC91D9H; average D + average T = 5 or greater
November 26, 2020 12:35PM
I'm sorry but GC80KDJ should not have been published in the first place

We cannot issue a checker for a challenge which is not allowed on the basis that it is ratio caching

Please read https://www.geocaching.com/help/index.php?pg=kb.chapter&id=127&pgid=206#percentageOfCaches

Not acceptable
Quote
 Finding all or any percentage of the caches, or of a cache type, rating
and
Quote
Not finding caches: design that limits or punishes any element of finding caches. 
Re: GC91D9H; average D + average T = 5 or greater
November 26, 2020 01:02PM
Actually I don't think that interpretation of the standard is correct. That clause is talking about percentages as in a percentage of caches or cache types in a specific area of, say, earth caches in France.

It also isn't "not finding caches" or "limits or punishes any element of finding caches" any more than a challenge which requires you to find caches with the HIKE ATTRIBUTE where, for you to qualify, you would have to ignore or not find any cache which does not have the hike attribute.

Do you see what I mean? Shall I check with my reviewer and get back to you?

novo
Re: GC91D9H; average D + average T = 5 or greater
November 26, 2020 01:40PM
I received instruction from HQ not to issue any checkers as they do not comply with the ratio guideline.

To avoid the ration problem you can ask for a D/T average over a set number of caches, ie. the average over that set number of caches and not all your finds.

See checker https://project-gc.com/Challenges/GC91D9H/56710
ZQX
Re: GC91D9H; average D + average T = 5 or greater
November 27, 2020 03:53AM
Hi team novo and vogelbird,
Just a few thoughts for the mix:
I can think of challenges that have been published since the moratorium on challenge caches was lifted, where this exact type of challenge was permitted. For example: GC80KDJ
team novo is raising the bar very high with a average D+T greater than or equal to 5.0, but personally I would welcome such a challenge. Having said that, from the reviewer's perspective, I can see how this type of challenge is problematic. Very few people will qualify.
Regards,
Max (ZQX)
Re: GC91D9H; average D + average T = 5 or greater
November 27, 2020 07:16AM
Just a side note for anyone reading this post.

Firstly, I genuinely did not think there would be a problem putting in for this kind of challenge. I have done my homework. A number of similar ones exist, as well as the one I posted a link for (same as the one ZQX linked to). I was especially confident that I would be okay since the example I gave (which has been approved by the board of Australian Reviewers) was published since challenge caches became so heavily moderated a few years ago.

Second, I noticed that on 26 November, said existing challenge has had a "Needs Archived" note posted on it by someone which I find regrettable as I certainly did not intend any of this specific process for my checker to disadvantage some other CO's challenge cache. I am really disappointed, and disappointed for them I am so sorry that I have apparently inadvertently threatened archival of this cache I cannot explain how much that was NOT MY INTENTION.

novo
Re: GC91D9H; average D + average T = 5 or greater
November 27, 2020 07:55AM
vogelbird, that said (in the immediate previous post), I actually really like your suggestion to set the challenge over a set number of caches rather than the total finds as it will indeed keep a lot of experienced cachers happy. Yes we have a very high D/T average but setting up my dee + tee = 5 challenge was not meant to be about showing that off. I think it will certainly be good to have more folks essentially trying for higher D and T caches. So thanks for the suggestion.

Checker seems to work well. I assume it takes the best sequence of 555 caches and samples over that - or does it take your most recent 555 caches? Can you please elaborate? I'll need to let people know on the cache page. If I have an option I think it would be preferable if it were your best sequence of 555 caches ie it MUST be 555 caches in a row, somewhere in your total finds. I do not want it to be just any of the best 555 caches randomly from finds as that would favour cachers with high overall finds which is not even close to what I want to achieve with the challenge.

I have one further request. Would you please be able to set the script out to include an Average Total, please? Seeing as the challenge is specifically asking for the total of the average D and average T to be 5 or greater, I think it would be good or even mandatory to have that in the script. Ideally:

Using 555 finds, I have:
Average Difficulty: 3.5
Average Terrain: 3.2
Average Total: 6.7


Thank you!!

novo



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/27/2020 08:46AM by team novo. (view changes)
Re: GC91D9H; average D + average T = 5 or greater
November 27, 2020 11:38AM
You wrote
it MUST be 555 caches in a row
This is not acceptable because this is a negative criteria "Not finding caches: design that limits or punishes any element of finding caches" i.e. you stop cachers from visiting easier locations and caches during a row

This challenge can only be based on your best finds

You wrote
Would you please be able to set the script out to include an Average Total
I will have to ask the scriptwriter to make a script extension
Re: GC91D9H; average D + average T = 5 or greater
November 27, 2020 12:40PM
Oh boy. Sadly, I'm going to bow out and go back to the drawing board.

Thanks for your efforts, vogelbird.

novo
Re: GC91D9H; average D + average T = 5 or greater
December 02, 2020 02:00AM
I see this is still active. As I said previously, I am going to abandon this (average D + average T = 5 or greater challenge) checker request based on your responses above, and go and think of something else. Thanks anyway for your efforts, vogelbird. I will start another post once I come up with something.

novo
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