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Re: 360 from Home as Challenge Checker

[Awaiting feedback] 360 from Home as Challenge Checker
December 29, 2020 05:33AM
I see various comments about this isn't possible as the checker API doesn't have access to the HOME coords. Is that still valid, since 360 From Home Map is now readily accessible under tools?

Otherwise can we have a checker that prompts the user for a base location and run the same script as the 360 from home? With increased users completing this statistic, it makes perfect sense to allow such a feat as a Challenge cache.

With the current wording on GC regarding challenge caches, there's nothing in there prohibiting anything based on home location. I'd be happy to accept a screen shot of the 360 from Home stats page showing no open segments.

Thanks!

Steve
Re: 360 from Home as Challenge Checker
December 29, 2020 06:21AM
Unfortunately since the introduction in 2016 of the challenge guidelines this type of challenge is no longer allowed.
Sectors (the triangles/wedges from the starting point with an angle of 1 degree) are geographic areas other than country/state/county.

Please read https://www.geocaching.com/help/index.php?pg=kb.chapter&id=127&pgid=206#criteria

Not acceptable
Quote
Challenges based on geographic areas other than countries, states/provinces, counties (or their local equivalent). For example, user-defined mapping polygons, latitude/longitude, radius, etc.
Re: 360 from Home as Challenge Checker
December 29, 2020 04:33PM
I disagree with that interpretation. This is a challenge that you need to find 360 caches for each degree from a point. You're not defining a geographic AREA, and the line/angle length is irrelevant. Since that rule applies to creating a specific area, it doesn't apply to the 360 from Home calculations.

This challenge simply requires 360 caches in ANY area - they just have to be in a circle around ANY point - no AREA is required or specified.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/29/2020 04:46PM by srstuart. (view changes)
Re: 360 from Home as Challenge Checker
December 29, 2020 05:21PM
The other point is in the section "READ FIRST" https://project-gc.com/forum/read?8,8362,8362#msg-8362
What a checker can not do
    * The checkers does not have access to the user's home coordinates. Challenges are not allowed to be based upon them either, and haven't been allowed to for several years. This is a matter of integrity.
Re: 360 from Home as Challenge Checker
December 29, 2020 05:23PM
And if you are still in doubt contact your local reviewer or geocaching HQ
Re: 360 from Home as Challenge Checker
December 29, 2020 06:01PM
Again, this seems to be irrelevant. That reference is 4 years old, and was before you had access. WIth the 360 from Home in the Tools section, the API clearly has access, so again, this isn't looking for an AREA, Just checking if they have 360 caches for each degree around a given point. They can enter any location they want - just has to be from a given base location.
Re: 360 from Home as Challenge Checker
December 29, 2020 06:54PM
Project-GC has access to home coordinates, the checker API does not (and no, they're not the same).
So even if the reference is 4 years "old", it's still correct when it comes to this.

And as vogelbird said, if you think the interpretation is wrong (or if you think a screenshot should qualify) bring it up with your local reviewer as we're not reviewers.
Re: 360 from Home as Challenge Checker
December 29, 2020 06:03PM
The only thing in their rules that applies is needed a web based checker. I could argue that a screenshot of your results in the Tools section could apply, but thought an official checker we could reference would be easier.
Re: 360 from Home as Challenge Checker
December 30, 2020 01:26AM
Not having a checker is against the guidelines. The whole challenge idea is against the guidelines. If you don't believe the volunteers in the PGC-forums you can email HQ about it but this challenge will not happen.

The guideline "Challenge owners will need to make sure that cachers can show that they have completed the cache requirements without compromising their privacy." (bold by me) doesn't allow you to use the home coordinates even if it was possible for the checker system and the section quoted by vogelbird means that degrees/wedges of the 360-tool can not be used. If any reviewer agrees to publish such a challenge you should ask them to verify that with HQ because they are misstaken about the guidelines.
Re: 360 from Home as Challenge Checker
December 30, 2020 02:03AM
I am pushing it to them, and they're declining to escalate it, but this is ridiculous to have this arbitrary rule. I don't think anyone uses their actual house as a "Home Coordinate", and this idea could easily prompt for a location of choice. There's no privacy issue involved with such an approach, so again, their rationale behind such a block doesn't apply.
Re: 360 from Home as Challenge Checker
December 30, 2020 02:38AM
What do you mean with "they're declining to escalate it"? You are free to email HQ with this yourself, just use the form at https://www.geocaching.com/help/index.php?pg=request to do so. You will get the answer that this is not allowed under the current guidelines but at least you are wasting the time of people that get paid to answer instead of volunteers. :)

It makes no sense that you are arguing this is the PGC-forums, this is based in HQs rules and nobody at PGC can do anything to change this. If you don't like the rules of the game you go to the source to try to change them or you find an other game, arguing with people that can't change the rules is just wasting your time. :)
Re: 360 from Home as Challenge Checker
December 30, 2020 04:43AM
Wow, I'm sorry if you think I'm wasting anyone's time, as that's not my intent. I simply am trying to find out if it's doable, regardless of the rules in place today. You have the capability in the Tools section, so I simply wanted to know if the same capability could be used in the checker functionality.

I certainly hope I haven't been argumentative to anyone here - just trying to get some help getting GC to agree that this request is just about statistical finds, and has nothing to do with area which is what that rule indicates.
Re: 360 from Home as Challenge Checker
December 30, 2020 03:53PM
English is not my first language so I might have sounded harsher than intended. But I genuinely do not understand why you are questioning volunteers that tell you that this is not allowed or possible.

The facts are:
  • Challenge checkers doesn't have access to the home coordinates.
  • Grandfathered 360 challenges have "checkers" outside of the normal checker system.
  • A Challenge must have a standard challenge checker.
  • 360 degrees challenges, no matter the centerpoint, is not allowed based on information from HQ.

With these facts, how would a 360 degrees from home be publishable? There is no way to twist this in to becoming a publishable challenge. You can make it a traditional cache with a optional challenge part that nobody will read, that is your only option within the current guidelines. The only other option is to argue with HQ that the guidelines should be changed. I don't see why you call the information from others in the forum irrelevant etc, it doesn't increase the chance of this challenge happening.
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