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Re: GC6TFA1 Old Timers (A Challenge Cache)

[Resolved] GC6TFA1 Old Timers (A Challenge Cache)
September 24, 2016 11:33PM
This challenge is to have found the oldest existing cache in at least 5 countries (Sovereign States). Is it possible to have a checker for this?

We have found the oldest existing cache in 6 different countries:-
UK - GCF0 Scotland's First
Ireland - GC43 Europe's First
Belgium - GC40 Geocache
Sweden - GC4D Match Stash
Denmark - GC6A Kippers in the Jungle (Denmark's first)
USA - GC30 Mingo

Thank you.

Yvonne and Stephen
(Hobo and Miss)
Re: GC6TFA1 Old Timers (A Challenge Cache)
September 25, 2016 12:50AM
It is possible. But you have to define what is considered "Sovereign States"
Some countries are divided in many countries on gc.com How should they be handled?

A list with which countries is considered "Sovereign States" need to be make with the exact name used on pgc
And if separate countries that are part of the "Sovereign State" should be include then a list with the connection har to be included.
A problem might be that a list with how Sovereign States is defined (with countries are include and associated areas is handled will be against this guideline
Quote

The challenge requirements should be simple, and easy to explain, follow and document. A long list of rules or restrictions may prevent publication.
You might need to say that oldest cache with groundspeek definition.

You cant say only "Sovereign States" because there is no universal list of sovereign states. Sovereign state can be that De facto and/or de jure. And what it is different with country you are in.
Can I use the oldest cache in Palatines?
Sweden have recognize it so it is de jure from my perspective.
UK has not so it is not de jure in you case.
But is is kind of de facto from both.
And Somaliland. de jure from no state but it is a de facto state. Can that be used
And Israel is not recognized by many arab countries. Can cachers from the use it?
Or can a cacher from Turkey use Northern Cyprus?

And the multiple GC.com countries in one.
The Kingdom of the Netherlands includes Netherlands,Aruba, Curaçao and Sint Maarten maby some else. How it that handled?
The same for France and others

You need an exact answer to create a checker and how the checker handles it has to be included in the description.

And of course different definition depending of the home of the caches cant be done. The checker don know that so a single definition has to be done.
And it can only use gc.com definition of countries/regions and counties.

And to explicitly say that hidden date before the first cache shall be ignored. There is caches with hidden date 1900.
Re: GC6TFA1 Old Timers (A Challenge Cache)
September 25, 2016 10:57AM
Thank you for your reply.

We have this wording in the cache description:-
"Please note that the UK is one country existing of England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. There is only one oldest cache for the UK and it is GCF0 Scotland's First.

The caches must be in sovereign states as recognized by the United Nations. The Channel Islands and Isle of Man are not countries, they are Crown Dependencies. Also Gibraltor is not a country, it is a British Overseas Territory."

There is a list online of UN recognized countries. Is that enough?

We can add a sentence saying "hidden date before the first cache shall be ignored".

Please advise us how to proceed.

Yvonne
Re: GC6TFA1 Old Timers (A Challenge Cache)
September 25, 2016 11:52AM
What is "UN recognized countries"?
I cant find any list with that
To the best of my Knowledge the UN don't recognized state.
It has members that are voted in by 2/3 of member state and by the security counsil.
But that is not a requirement for a Sovereign state. We can all agree that Switzerland was a sovereign state before 2002. I suspect all UN members have recognized it since the UN foundation.

And historical not all UN members were Sovereign states
Belarus, Ukraine, India, Philippines was all founding member but not independent. New Zealand was only de facto a sovereign state at the foundation. And I thin the US is still allowed to have 2 states as independent members because Sovjet union and UK hade multipel memberships at foundation

UN have member and invited no member states https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states
The non members states are Palestine and Holy See(Vatican)
And then Taiwan will not be included
If only members are used you have still the problem with different definition

The Kingdom of the Netherlands is the UN member but splint in Netherlands,Aruba, Curaçao and Sint Maarten perhaps some else on gc.com.

And gc.com does not have the Irish republic included only the Island of Ireland with Northern Ireland included.

I have no idea if the oldest cache can exist in split areas.

And I suspect that what the UK represents in the UN includes British Overseas Territory and Crown Dependencies



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2016 11:54AM by Target.. (view changes)
Re: GC6TFA1 Old Timers (A Challenge Cache)
September 25, 2016 12:35PM
Thank you again.

So if we change the wording to a country recognized by Groundpeak, since all cache pages show the country they are in, am I right in thinking you are able to provide a checker? We will change the wording accordingly if a checker can be written.

I will go ahead and edit the page and hope to hear from you again soon.

Thanks!

Yvonne
Re: GC6TFA1 Old Timers (A Challenge Cache)
September 28, 2016 01:36PM
I have edited the page and we are waiting to hear if a checker is possible. Presumably you will let us know if/when there is a checker or if it is not possible for this challenge?
Thank you.
Yvonne
Re: GC6TFA1 Old Timers (A Challenge Cache)
October 17, 2016 11:39AM
We are still waiting to hear whether a checker can be made available for this challenge. I believe we have amended it to comply with your earlier comments but still don't know whether we are getting a checker or not. Please can you let us know one way or the other? Thank you!
Yvonne
Re: GC6TFA1 Old Timers (A Challenge Cache)
October 24, 2016 01:03PM
Howdy,

I am currently writing just such a script for "https://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC6K6ZV_old-timer-country-silver-rm-challenge-142";

Our earlier implementation was based on bookmark lists and this was frowned upon by the reviewer. We are currently updating it. The interpretation we were told to go with is any cache older than the current oldest active should qualify.

Thanks.
Re: GC6TFA1 Old Timers (A Challenge Cache)
October 24, 2016 01:22PM
OK - thanks for your reply. We'll wait and see what comes out of it. It doesn't sound as though it will be quite what we were hoping for - or what GC6K6ZV wanted!
Thanks anyway.

Yvonne
Re: GC6TFA1 Old Timers (A Challenge Cache)
October 24, 2016 03:47PM
There was a bunch of back and forth with the reviewer. I think we are all trying to figure this out, Co's, scripters, taggers, and reviewers.
Re: GC6TFA1 Old Timers (A Challenge Cache)
October 25, 2016 03:46PM
Ok. The script is up. Search terms oldest and country should help you find it.

We started with the simple oldest active in a country metric for the challenge. However the reviewer felt the language about past finds counting included finds on caches that were now archived that may have been the oldest active on the day they were found. As the projectgc api does not have a good way of doing that and the groundspeak database does not guarantee preservation of the logs it was the best we could agree upon.

Now that is done.

If you want the straight forward version, I can release that script as well. It is a minor edit.

Let me know.
Re: GC6TFA1 Old Timers (A Challenge Cache)
October 25, 2016 04:18PM
I'm sure I'm being stupid but where do we find the script?
Yvonne
Re: GC6TFA1 Old Timers (A Challenge Cache)
October 25, 2016 04:46PM
From the main challenge checker page, find script
Re: GC6TFA1 Old Timers (A Challenge Cache)
October 25, 2016 05:11PM
Only Script writers have access to this page.

The request was a checker GC6TFA1
Re: GC6TFA1 Old Timers (A Challenge Cache)
October 25, 2016 06:04PM
I've been to the Challenge Checker page. I know I have to copy some script from somewhere to paste into our cache page but I can't find where to get it from! I'm sure it's really obvious really!
Re: GC6TFA1 Old Timers (A Challenge Cache)
October 25, 2016 06:09PM
http://project-gc.com/Challenges/GC6K6ZV/21974

This should do it.

Sorry for the confusion.
Re: GC6TFA1 Old Timers (A Challenge Cache)
October 25, 2016 06:25PM
But this takes me to the checker for GC6K6ZV. Although the challenge seems to be the same as ours don't we want people to go to a checker that says they're checking GC6TFA1?
Re: GC6TFA1 Old Timers (A Challenge Cache)
October 25, 2016 06:32PM
If you like the way it behaves we can Clone it for your cache. If you don't like it we can move on.
Re: GC6TFA1 Old Timers (A Challenge Cache)
October 25, 2016 06:39PM
This appears to do what we want - that is the oldest cache in a country as defined by Ground speak. So please would you clone it for our cache?

Thank you for all your hard work. Now let's hope the Reviewer allows the challenge!

Yvonne
Re: GC6TFA1 Old Timers (A Challenge Cache)
October 25, 2016 07:21PM
http://project-gc.com/Challenges/GC6TFA1/23187

Let me know if there are problems.
Re: GC6TFA1 Old Timers (A Challenge Cache)
October 26, 2016 11:53AM
Thank you for the checker. Cache now submitted for review.
Re: GC6TFA1 Old Timers (A Challenge Cache)
October 26, 2016 07:45AM
Is it possible to exclude every cache placed before May 2000 as caches with unusual/fake dates tend to be prior to the commencement of Geocaching

http://coord.info/GC6NEAV can be removed from the excluded list. Its placed date has been changed.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2016 08:08AM by ChrisDen. (view changes)
Re: GC6TFA1 Old Timers (A Challenge Cache)
October 26, 2016 11:49AM
Working on the 2000 fix. I will look into the excluded cache. It might be on the list because the location is funky.
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