Re: GC4Y95D - Geschichten aus dem Cacherleben (Challenge)

A new cache that has appeared on the checker list - however it is obviously splitting the vote so I thought I would throw this in the mix for discussion :-

My thoughts on this one are :-
This 'challenge' requires you to find 20 (or more) caches
The cache is pre-moratorium so not bounded by the current guidelines (checker not required)
so - it is an unknown and it has challenge in the title. It has criteria for qualification (find 20 caches) - Thus fits all that it needs to be a challenge cache.
It is possible that the requirement of creating a story with the names of the 20 caches you choose maybe is what is causing some issue. However this is just clarification as to what 20 caches you must find.
An example of similar challenges (of the earlier sort (pre-moratorium)) :-
find 20 caches with the name of a fruit in the title
find 20 caches with a girls name in the title
find 20 caches with the name of an animal in the title

All of these are based around using the cache name and were allowed - this one is no different

Thus I had no hesitation to upvote this one

Tim - ddm

For me your examples are not similar because these are clear criteria
You must find caches with names etc

GC4Y95D is missing this criteria
Here you can use any title as long as there is a story

I down voted because I find this too far fetched to call it a challenge.
For me it is embroidery on a piece of fabric

I can see that this would be the reason for downvotes - but as has been said before we should be looking at these things in black and white - this challenge is all around the names of the challenges (like the others)
The fact that there is criteria as required for challenge caches - in this case find 20 caches - should be all that we look at.
IMHO

Yes, but bonus caches (called challenges) on series are also not seen as challenges and down voted

For me this is the same

I upvoted this without a second thought. But then again I have upvoted the "bonus challenge caches" (i.e. "log a challenge cache with each weekday-name in the title" or whatever the one discussed here in the forums was) that many have downvoted too, because with a black and white viewpoint they are clearly challenges and so is this one, even if most of the challenge probably is in "writing the story" and not "finding the caches" in this case. Feels like a classic "bookkeeping exercise marked as a challenge" to me. :)

I'm basically second guessing my downvote on that "your top x favorites" every time I look at the exceptions list, lol. But I still feel that I don't have to complete the challenge to log it. If I have only logged 10 caches, are they really my "top ten favorite caches" or are they just "ten random caches"? Too philosophical maybe? :)

Reading the guidelines that were given to moderators and are noted in the wiki page regarding how we view the cache before voting - "Note that your vote shall not be based on today's Challenge guidelines but rather on the fact that the Geocache requires you to do something before/when logging it. You shall not take into consideration if it's a good challenge or not, neither if you like it as a challenge"
So saying something like "I don't like what is required of the finder." "I don't think the criteria is really a challenge" (or similar) which is a personal view and this is not how we should be voting
As I have said before - we must view these in black and white - Here the challenge is to find 20 caches - it is then embellished with 'use those 20 caches to make a story with the titles of those caches'. It might be considered that the latter part is an ALR - but that doesnt take away the simple facts - this is a called a challenge and you have to find caches to qualify.