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Re: Checker exception

Checker exception
September 06, 2018 09:19AM
https://coord.info/GC7WQG8

Why did this even make the exception list ???
No 'challenge' in the title - nothing to indicate this was a challenge cache, it is simply a puzzle - yet submitted for the exception list for voting on ???
Re: Checker exception
September 06, 2018 09:32AM
Défi (French) = Challenge (English).
Re: Checker exception
September 06, 2018 09:51AM
I am aware of that
This cache page is written in English not French (as far as I can see - it was not translated for me when I went to it )
and the word in the title is Definitions not Defi
définition in French is definition in English !

the other three puzzles in this COs series are linked and are all puzzles based on words as is the one above

So a bit of a jump to see how this was considered a challenge -

that was all
:-)
Re: Checker exception
September 06, 2018 10:02AM
Might just have been a typo when pasting, or somebody doing a bulk add of any cache that looked like it was a french based on the name. Once added it can't be removed, and doesn't really do any harm if the number of bad cases are low.
Re: Checker exception
October 06, 2018 12:03PM
Interesting !
I have just looked at the checker exception list and noted that GC7WDPH - OIIIIIO 31 - Yellow Jeep trackable Challenge and four other associated caches were ones that I seemed to vote against the trend
When I checked it seems the majority upvoted that this and the other 4 were good as challenge caches - yet (and the reason I downvoted) none of these had a checker (a requirement to publish) and would not have due the nature of the challenge (finding specific TBs) - so I am curious as to why others thought these did fit the criteria
Tim



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2018 09:17AM by Deepdiggingmole. (view changes)
Re: Checker exception
October 07, 2018 12:42AM
Good question. I have upvoted it because it states "This cache is a CHALLENGE CACHE." and there is word Challenge in the title.

Explanation is also given in logs: "This challenge cache was mistakenly published, it does not meet the current challenge cache guidelines and must be archived."
Re: Checker exception
October 07, 2018 09:05AM
I downvoted the jeep caches because at the time of publication this challenge was not allowed anymore.
Re: Checker exception
October 07, 2018 09:18AM
The archiving note states that it was published as a challenge. If it had not been a challenge then it would not be archived.
Re: Checker exception
October 07, 2018 09:26AM
arisoft Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Good question. I have upvoted it because it states "This cache is a CHALLENGE CACHE." and there is word Challenge in the title.
>
Sorry, but surely this is why there is a team of us who look through these caches because 'they state they are challenge caches' and/or 'there is the word challenge in the title' - yet many do not not conform to the guidelines - just upvoting for those reasons will not result in a proper check ? - I am curious though as the majority upvoted despite all 5 of these NOT having a checker - just that alone should have resulted in a downvote


> Explanation is also given in logs: "This challenge cache was mistakenly published, it does not meet the current challenge cache guidelines and must be archived." - I am aware of this log as these caches were reported to the reviewer who then archived them - this was, however, after the votes were cast ??
Re: Checker exception
October 07, 2018 10:02AM
I think that every case is a bit different. I am sure that there are still some active challenges which do not meet all challenge requirements but they are still challenges if the challenge ALR is honored by HQ, which is not the easiest task to verify. For example the CO changed afterwards the challenge rules to not allowed, which has been already happened. Did the challenge status disappear in that case? I suspect that any indication of challenge may be honored but the cache will be archived if there is something wrong.
Re: Checker exception
October 07, 2018 02:21PM
I agree.
The presence of a checker is irrelevant as the point of the exception process is mainly to identify old challenge caches that were published before the current rules and which wouldn't have a checker. For many a checker isn't even possible (such as lonely caches). I'll admit I don't normally pay attention to the publication date when reviewing these, so if a challenge has snuck through I'll judge it based on whether it has a challenge element (additional logging requirements based upon past geocaching behaviour) not against the current arbitrary HQ rule set.
Re: Checker exception
October 07, 2018 05:44PM
I would agree in what you say regarding the date - I am well aware that many of the caches that are added to the exception list are older ones and so do not require a checker and I do take that into consideration - though when I assess the cache I look at the content and the requirements and vote on that
This particular set were published after the moratorium (so arguably this is relevant as a checker would have been required) but that aside the subject matter (the challenge) were very specifically to find certain TBs
This goes against several guidelines and so should not have been published as challenges in the first place and the reviewer has indeed acknowledged that they slipped through the net and subsequently archived them.
I know that had a checker been requested for these through the checker request process here on PGC the response would have been that the challenges did not confirm to the guidelines and so checkers would not be created.
However I know that the archiving did occur after many of the upvotes were given and so my query was to find out why other moderators felt that these did 'pass the test' as all of these do have a big majority of an upvote
Re: Checker exception
October 08, 2018 12:18AM
My personal view on the exception list is that I will upvote caches that are challenges (i.e., they have additional logging requirements) and downvote caches that are not. The guidelines dictate whether or not a challenge cache should be published or not, but don't determine whether it is a challenge or not.

In a similar vein, there's a Q&A question about an April Fools challenge ( https://project-gc.com/qa/?qa=19203/request-to-remove-gc3fyve-archived-cache-challenge ). In my opinion this still qualifies as a challenge cache, even though it was an April Fools joke, since it has a challenge condition stated.
Re: Checker exception
October 08, 2018 06:05AM
That's the logic I use. The only real exception I have if it it is really a bonus cache - that is you have to found caches from a small very electric list most likely owned by the same cache owner as part of a route.

Policing the rules is up to the reviewers at point of publication, so I judge it on merit based on the logic that if it has been published it was allowed (until archived) and even if it was archived for those who did find it then it counts as a challenge find as long as it has some meaningful criteria. (Obviously on the checker request forums we do give strong advice on if we think a challenge meets the current rules -this is to save everyone time and energy).
Re: Checker exception
October 08, 2018 07:34AM
Then what relevance is the exception list to the list of challenges in the challenge tab on PGC site - I was hoping that the list of challenges found under that tab were ALL deemed to be compliant challenge caches
I was under the impression that there was a direst correlation between what is up and down voted in the exception list and what then appears on cachers lists of challenge caches found.
If what you're saying is that a cache might not be a challenge under the guidelines (GC dot com) and so not recognised by them, so not published or if slipped through the net eventually archived and locked - but because it looks like there is a challenge element (despite not complying with the guidelines) it gets upvoted on the exception list and so will therefore appear on the list in the challenge tab (if the cacher has found them of course) ???
Isnt that contradictory - I thought the exception list weeded out those challenges that didn't comply so that they didn't appear the challenge tab lists
It would seem that is not the case - GC7WDPH / OIIIIIO 31 Yellow Jeep trackable Challenge for example is not a challenge cache under the guidelines which is why it was archived on GC site but is being allowed to appear on cachers challenge cache lists on PGC site because this group has upvoted it

just saying :-)
Re: Checker exception
October 08, 2018 08:44AM
The relevance of the exception list is because there are:

Several (old) challenges which are not unknown caches or don't have the word "challenge" in the title (such as French ones with the word "Defi")
Several caches which are unknown caches with the word "challenge" in the title that have no challenge cache conditions (for example, difficult puzzles)
Re: Checker exception
November 10, 2018 10:16AM
sumbloke Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The relevance of the exception list is because
> there are:
>
> Several (old) challenges which are not unknown
> caches or don't have the word "challenge" in the
> title (such as French ones with the word "Defi")
> Several caches which are unknown caches with the
> word "challenge" in the title that have no
> challenge cache conditions (for example, difficult
> puzzles)

But that doesn't answer why a cache such as GC7WDPH / OIIIIIO 31 Yellow Jeep trackable Challenge, not being a challenge cache under the guidelines (which is why it was archived on GC site) but is being allowed to appear on cachers challenge cache lists on PGC site because this group has upvoted it
Re: Checker exception
November 10, 2018 01:40PM
Ok - to continue this thread with another query
The following is listed in the exception list and it seems the majority of moderators have upvoted it - https://coord.info/GC27P0F

This challenge is based on finding caches belonging to the CO

"To be able to sign this cache, you must find 45 caches of joce13 or more in one day" the CO of the challenge is joce13

However Section 11 of the guidelines in the 'not acceptable column says :-
A challenge based on elements under the cache owner’s primary control is not acceptable: examples, my favorites, my caches, bookmark lists, caches by this owner, or this group.

I had always thought even before the moratorium that a challenge based on finding your own caches or finding any caches with a specifically named owner was not allowed - I appreciate these guidelines were post moratorium

This is why I downvoted this challenge

Thoughts

Tim
Re: Checker exception
November 10, 2018 05:46PM
> I had always thought even before the moratorium
> that a challenge based on finding your own caches
> or finding any caches with a specifically named
> owner was not allowed - I appreciate these
> guidelines were post moratorium
>
> This is why I downvoted this challenge

We are not to judge reviewer's decisions. If the reviewer allowed the ALR and published the cache which is against guidelines, it is an exception to guidelines. If the CO have powers to delete logs because the player does not meet challenge rules it is a challenge.
Re: Checker exception
November 20, 2018 08:22AM
Interesting one - https://coord.info/GC7Y68W
This appears to have been approved and even a checker created - however I would have thought that this one would not be acceptable due to it relying on information retrieved from the cache name
This goes against rule 10 : source of criteria : These cache page elements: cache titles, cache owner, GC Codes, publishing Reviewer, or cache page text.

thoughts please
Re: Checker exception
November 20, 2018 08:26AM
That one seems to have a tag cloned by the CO. The reviewer seems to have messed up in publishing it because it is definitely not allowed under current guidelines.
Re: Checker exception
November 20, 2018 09:22AM
two more
GC7WRXN - Staffs Challenge 2 = MULTI A-Z and
GC7WRFZ - Staffs Challenge 1 = CM 10 in 10

Looks like this cacher found old challenge caches - used their checkers and even added "Thanks to mole125 for his work on the checker!! " on one of them - cheeky
Re: Checker exception
April 02, 2019 06:18AM
Who put
GC8594J - Bezdrożem 1: WORLD CHALLANGE 3*3
into the checker exception list ????
It isn't even published yet ???
Re: Checker exception
April 06, 2019 10:59AM
I'm now getting a message to vote on this and it is still unpublished ????
Re: Checker exception
May 03, 2019 10:18AM
Why was this one put up for checking on the exception list ??

GC1BM13

Its a trad and no mention of the word challenge ???
Re: Checker exception
May 03, 2019 10:56AM
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