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Question

Can we have the original BadgeGen back please? [closed]

30 Answers

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Answer 1 · 2020-02-04T07:36:37+0000

Hi everyone, clappy here, the guy who designed the new badges in close coordination with magma1447, the creator of PGC. I'm not affiliated with PGC, I just did the artwork.

First of all, thanks for your feedback, although it's a bit sad to receive such a lot of negative and unconstructive comments. I/we understand that it's a big change, not everyone likes it (totally fine) and it will take some time to ge used to.

Just a few things to consider:
PGC would have went this path to new badges in any case. The old ones are not well-scalable, the original owner Kyle does not maintain them anymore and they were not "public domain". With the new design, we are able to develop the system, create new things and have badges that scale with display size (vector-graphics).

We wanted something that matches the updated cache type icons from geocaching, something that looks more modern but is well recognisable maybe even without the text on the ribbon. The old design did not have intuitive graphics in all cases.

Don't get me wrong, I also liked the old badges, but with the new ones there is more to customize, add new badges (there are already some, others will come in the future), have addons and more loops.

Not all badges will be loopable (Author, Trackable for instance), since we don't want to encourage mass-TB-logging or even longer Found It Logs.

Something about the history:
About a year ago PGC made some posts about a designer they were looking for. Apparently no-one showed up. When they made a "Sneak Peek"-announcement of new badges, they looked somewhat inconsistent, they lacked uniform icons, were hexagonal and had problems with readability. I drafted some ideas how to improve and magma1447 liked them. We changed a lot since then, talked for many hours and tried to improve things. Some things were a technical issue, some more aesthetic. The result is the BETA you're seeing right now.

Yes, BETA. We will walk this path with new PGC-Badges, but we are still open for improvements. Right now, I myself found some things I will change for the next version. And the country badges are also in the list but were not top priority. The numbers are also not all fixed, although there will be changes.

What I ask of you is this: Instead of simply state: "This is ugly.", please comment, what in detail we can improve. Is there a badge that's totally off, some ideas on how to improve? Please be specific, then we can actually work with it. :) It would also be nice, if there is something you like about them. :) Critisism is good, if it is in a constructive way.

Thanks for reading! ;)

answered Feb 4, 2020 by clappy (16.3k points)

Thak you for the explanation. Anyway the result has to be improved. The trouble is that the change is a shock. One part is that the habit is strong. The second part is, that the change is like change classic painting for modern art.
Originally the gold was gold - in your case it is yellow (little to the orange), it is not gold any more. Try to use more graphic tools - work with brigthness, light and darkness. Make badge, not only a picture. Use more colours for the picture on the badge. The badge must looks rich - like something you MUST have. Like something that it is nof for everybody. Not like a sticker.
The original badge has some very clever thinks:
- the picture's colours makes, that the picture is on the front - the coulour of the badge is on the background.
- the colour of the background (and the star shape of the badge) makes the badge shine
- the effect of the badge was rich
- the different colours for different cache size
- the colours of caches equal to their colours on map

So please - return the badge's look to design of something what looks like something everybody need. Imagine as you are a package designer - how you make the design to sell the goods?
Thanks for that.

commented Feb 4, 2020 by Komet_GPS_f (130 points)

I feel for you mate. It sucks to receive such negativity without any suggestions for what might be done to improve them.
Change was needed, as outlined above. Few people like change, but rather than bitch about it, accept that it's going to happen and be part of the process.
So here are my thoughts;
Getting a colour scheme to work well is hard work, but I think there is too much emphasis on the background of each badge. The individual graphics are too small which is more noticeable when viewing on a small screen. If I were to suggest a different shape for the badges, such as a Square rather than a Circle, then you could have the colour as a band along one edge (Horizontally or Vertically) and then fill the rest of the badge with the graphic making it easier to see. That might also solve the problem of the graphic changing visually depending on which background it currently has. For example, the Grey graphic on the Platinum colour background is far less easy to make out, as is the Matrix Grid 81 when on the Sapphire background.
Also, if you had a square badge with a horizontal colour band then when you have multiple badges of the same level showed next to each other I think the idea of their colour would flow better. The Circular badges don't flow together quite as cohesively.
I like the Addons - definitely a nice touch there.
Can the Gold be more Gold and less yellow? The Silver just looks dark grey, although I get the difficulty of visually differentiating between Silver and Platinum!
The Adventurous Cacher - PLEASE can we have the graphic as D5 over T5, not over 5T?
The FTF Addict - I think the FTF medal needs to be much bigger for clarity.
Great work on the High and Low altitude graphic - MUCH better than before :)

commented Feb 4, 2020 by TwigNZ (4.7k points)

Firstly colour: in order to convey a shiny appearance like a metal or gemstone, you need a fair amount of colour variation. The old badges achieved this with their use of black both on the borders and the approximately 1/3 of the badge which was black. I would suggest adding at the very least a thin black border. Additionally, I think the shape of the old badges and the variety of colour in the designs helped to convey the luxuriousness.

Shape: Circles are clean shapes, but look very simple. I like the 30-pointed stars of the old badges, but if we're wanting cleaner shapes I'd advise at least going to squares with rounded corners. One possibility would be to start at a circle for bronze and progress to more complex shapes for higher levels.

Colour contrast: Some of the badges could do with a bit of work to ensure there's contrast between the design and the background. I have The Matrix Cacher in Sapphire and the design is hard to see (dark grey on dark blue). The All Around Cacher and The Jasmer Cacher also have parts of the design which are hard to see on Sapphire level. I would suggest reviewing each design on both a dark and a light background.

Wording: I've pointed out before that the wording of one of the categories of points for the belt doesn't match its calculation ("2 points for every year since your first cache find" when it's actually 2 points for each calendar year with a find). At the time PGC was re-implementing Kyle's idea the wording wasn't corrected then, but could we please have it corrected now?

commented Feb 4, 2020 by sumbloke (Expert) (35.1k points)

Thank you for your long explanation :-). As you know, there is no chance to make everyone happy.

I like that the new badges are easier to identify and I like the explanations next to them and the add-ons.

I see that the colours are representing the colours of the gemstones and metals. I wish they would be a bit brighter or more "shiny", so that they look more sIgnificant. I hope, you understand what I am trying to explain.

I like that "The Trackable Lover" is now combining coins and trackables.

And I would suggest to reduce the words for "The Author" so the logs are not blown up.

I cannot wait to see which degrees I missed out for the "The All Around Cacher".

I love the new Jasmer and Challenge badges as I am a fan of both.

It is fair that "The Caching Veteran" was reduced and "The Brainiac" needs more caches now (could be even more for me).

How about "The App Cacher"? It is not possbible to find more than two (nowadays), as far as I know so it will be impossible to fulfill it.

I would like to have an overview where I can see which combinations of the add-ons I am missing out. For example, that I do not have found a mystery cache on the 29th of Feb or have no FTF of an Wherigo.

commented Feb 5, 2020 by meerblau (500 points)

Hi clappy.
When I first saw the change I was shocked. Then I realized that it is just not what I was used to see. But the design looks, in fact, very beta right now. Here some ideas:
1.) The design is mainly white on colored background, but some icons are too dark. Matrix: perhaps a white grid with gray border and gridlines and a smalled 81 with dark points would be better. Jasmer: no idea but too dark.
2.) The design is mainly white on colored background, so the colored CITO, Earthcache and GPS Maze look wired. Make them white too.
3.) The persons of T5 and busy cacher must be improved
4.) The Favorite Cacher: too much hearts, perhaps reduce to 3
5.) The Favorite Owner: in small the cache looks like a camera. Too much detail? Perpaps only one heart with the 'owner star' inside
6.) I love teh brain!
7.) the icon should always be centered. Small Mega and Giga badge look strange
8.) Micro cacher: Too much detail. Perhaps reduce to two cache examples
9.) The Busy cacher is hard to identify when smaller, because the important part is dark
10.) The handles of the "Achiever" cup shouldn't be dark
11.) The labeling banners on the big badges have a thin white border, so the badge itself should have one too.
12.) I agree with several other comments that the colors look a bit whashed out and could be a bit more shiny. The gradient could perhaps be a bit stronger.
13.) I like most of the badges which I didn't comment :-).

Finally: The old country badges and the classic belt beside the new badges make the new design look strange. Once the clean new design is on the complete page it will look much better.

What are you using to draw the badges?

commented Feb 5, 2020 by DrDaffy (170 points)

Thanks to all, who took their time and explained in more detail what they liked or not.
I think I did not mention this before, just to let you know: I'm not a professional designer, so I'm learning a lot with this project, too.

I have read all your feedback and made notes to everything. I actually have some ideas on design changes that I will try on the weekend or early next week. I will also talk to magma1447 about it, after all, it's his site :), and I'm positive we can evolve the badges further. I also noted the comments regarding levelling and will put them on our list, although it's again magmas decision in the end.

A few things I'd like to address though:

- Background colors: Many have said the colors are more bland or faded. In fact, they aren't, I picked the colors from the original badges and only changed them slightly. But I think due to the lack of the bold border it might look fader. I will keep this in mind for the next draft. Silver and Platinum (and in a way also Diamond) are hard to differentiate by color only. That's why Silver is darker than Platinum and Diamond appears more blueish.
Please do also note, that every screen depicts colors differently. I tried all with different screens, but it is something to keep in mind.

- Icon colors: We had colored icons before, the reason why they work on the original badges is due the high part of black and the bold borders. The new icons are modeled after GC's current cache type icons (which are white, the color comes from the background). We actually had the colored background on the badges (like the green Trad icon put on the badge), but it did not work with all medal/gem colors. That is why we opted for the icons only. I admit they could use more contrast, but in general they are identifiable as such, even without the color.

- Badge shape: I noted your suggestions and will try something out. Won't go back to the 30-pointed star, but maybe some variation for medals/gems.

Thanks again for all your feedback, please keep it coming! :)
clappy

commented Feb 5, 2020 by clappy (16.3k points)

My personal gripe was that I stated they were bland. After thinking about why I thought they were bland the answer was color. After looking over the badges I realized I didn't mind the look of the Earthcache and CITO badges Because they've got color to them. I feel a bit of color to the other ones would go a long way. Traditionals should have a green lid, multi's an orange lid, puzzles & wherigos blue (yes, like the old GC logos which are still used on the cache pages, stats, and stats here on Project GC). The Geocacher should have the full color groundspeak logo. Lab cache badge should have that chemical green look to them. For the diverse cacher, every one of the individual cache types should have the corresponding color as mentioned above. I've never quite understood the reasoning in modern design that everything should be monochromatic, a stark white on a single color or slight gradient background. Color makes everything better, it makes things pop, it makes them less bland. I don't intend to be mean towards your designs, I think they're okay. But they need a bit of help to get better and I think a little color goes a long way.

commented Feb 5, 2020 by Geokid12 (1.2k points)

@clappy: I'll do my best to keep it constructive. Please understand, I mean to be helpful, encouraging, and share with you my own design perspective, training, and knowledge. I understand how hard it can be to do a design change, some may not like change due to change. However, designer to designer, here are some thoughts.

Honestly, line width consistency, lack of color consistency, busyness consistency, and small intricate detail work consistency. I'd google image search "badge eps", for some ideas and go back to the drawing board for the badges and some of the icons. I think some of the work can be used, however, things need to be edited and changed a bit.

Here's a more detailed version. These are not ordered, just brainstorming as it's noticed.

1. Badges have inconsistent color use. Some are only, badge color, and black and white icons (earth cacher, gps maze, environmental are the only ones with multicolored icons). If you do some, you should do all—or none (not suggested). Take a look at the old ideas, each icon has color.
2. Diamond does feel "diamond". In fact most colors and shifts don't feel like gems nor metals. They need more shiny, or sparkles, and possibly color changes.
3. In fact, I don't get the badge level with any of the colors, not bronze through diamond.
4. The pointed effect previously look more badge like. These look like bubbles not badges. I would either a. thicken the border and add stitching or some sort of effect to emphasize patchwork OR b. change the shape.
5. There's a missed opportunity, as the gems could have been gem stone shapes and non gems could have been coins.
6. Further emphasizing point 2, more highlights and shadows could be used to enhance #2 and #5. A quick google image search on ruby, shows what I'm thinking, and searching "ruby eps" gives many ideas.
7. The Jasmer icon is too thin.
8. High altitude does not feel like what is needed to go high, it looks like a golf course hill
9. The stroke width is inconsistent between icons (i.e. long distance vs almost any other). I feel this may be due to scale stroking turned on.
10. Cache owner could have had the star in the head and been a bigger person
11. The cache size icons are too busy (the size chart isn't needed if done correctly, micro should only have 1 icon, the film container)
12. Shutterbug has small unreadable type and is not the shape of polaroid—if that's something that was meant to be achieved.
13. I think the colors worked in the old icons due to the black wave and type
14. The caches look bad in the badge info section—they don't scale smaller nicely
15. Some of the type doesn't fit within the ribbon—no spacing at ends on several (at least 3)
16. FTF (medal), it's ok, maybe a person running might have given emphasis to urgency for FTF find and would keep more in theme with the rugged cacher. I think the medal works though.
17. Why does the rugged and busy cacher have severed legs?
18. If your not finished with the icons, they shouldn't have been released. I see this product as a work in progress. Hard to win people over with uncompleted work.
19. The traditional cache works at HQ because of color BG. I would make the container green since BG is controlled by level. Like a green fill, white lined border, badge color.
20. The off centeredness of some icons is done incorrectly. Look at HQ's event cache vs the mega here.
21. Event host should just be the HQ design, no person (ie. consistency, why doesn't the Mega not have a person, probably due to legible type, so lose the person in the event icon)
22. Shutterbug: many images are landscape not portrait, at least most of mine that I take.
23. The trackable lover has too many objects. Reduce to either dog tags, or 1 or 2 of each.
24. The diverse cacher circles are not consistently sized, color them
25. Brainiac lightbulb should have light (white) extending, not dark border lines
26. The attribute cacher has more emphasis on the cache, than the attributes. Enlarge the tag and magnifying glass. Maybe lose the cache container.
27. Favorite owner, rework placement of objects.
28. Why are the addon icons so small, and they inconsistently appear? If badges have addons, I would place all the round icons around the badge, and only color/icon fill when achieved. Right now they are hidden achievements. The explainer text should inform users which achievements they are missing (confirmed with missing visuals, hollow/empty circles), and which they have (confirmed with visuals, filled circles). Think of stars for a level on a video game—you know you achieved 1 star and 3 is possible, etc.
29. Addon location should be consistent.

That's a lot to chew on. Hopefully helpful. No disrespect intended. - Chris

commented Feb 7, 2020 by MagicallyChris (570 points)
edited Feb 7, 2020 by MagicallyChris

Answer 2 · 2020-02-04T16:59:57+0000

Hi there, Kyle here (original BadgeGen creator). I haven't really been a part of the Geocaching community for quite a few years, and it was just brought to my attention that GSAK (the original driving "engine" of BadgeGen) is no longer being developed, and BadgeGen, in its former state, is likely dead. I'd love for ProjectGC to take over the development of BadgeGen freely. I have sent an email to my contact at ProjectGC and am willing to work with them to keep BadgeGen alive on ProjectGC. @clappy: I can probably track down the original vector graphics. If it's purely a licensing issue, and you'd prefer to stick to the original graphic design in the end, then we can definitely work together.

As for those commenting about your dislike for the new badge designs, please be constructive in your criticism. As a non-graphic-designer myself who had to figure out graphic design for the original badges, letting the designer know exactly what you don't like about the designs is super helpful. Just saying they're "ugly....bring back the old" is not helpful (not to mention discouraging). The old design is just that: old. Maybe it's time for an update, maybe not, but be constructive in your suggestions, please :)

Answer 3 · 2020-02-07T04:55:20+0000

I'll do my best to keep it constructive. Please understand, I mean to be helpful, encouraging, and share with you my own design perspective, training, and knowledge. I understand how hard it can be to do a design change, some may not like change due to change. However, designer to designer, here are some thoughts.

Honestly, line width consistency, lack of color consistency, busyness consistency, and small intricate detail work consistency. I'd google image search "badge eps", for some ideas and go back to the drawing board for the badges and some of the icons. I think some of the work can be used, however, things need to be edited and changed a bit.

Here's a more detailed version. These are not ordered, just brainstorming as it's noticed.

1. Badges have inconsistent color use. Some are only, badge color, and black and white icons (earth cacher, gps maze, environmental are the only ones with multicolored icons). If you do some, you should do all—or none (not suggested). Take a look at the old ideas, each icon has color.
2. Diamond doesn't feel "diamond". In fact most colors and shifts don't feel like gems nor metals. They need more shiny, or sparkles, and possibly color changes.
3. In fact, I don't get the badge level with any of the colors, not bronze through diamond.
4. The pointed effect previously look more badge like. These look like bubbles not badges. I would either a. thicken the border and add stitching or some sort of effect to emphasize patchwork OR b. change the shape.
5. There's a missed opportunity, as the gems could have been gem stone shapes and non gems could have been coins.
6. Further emphasizing point 2, more highlights and shadows could be used to enhance #2 and #5. A quick google image search on ruby, shows what I'm thinking, and searching "ruby eps" gives many ideas.
7. The Jasmer icon is too thin.
8. High altitude does not feel like what is needed to go high, it looks like a golf course hill
9. The stroke width is inconsistent between icons (i.e. long distance vs almost any other). I feel this may be due to scale stroking turned on.
10. Cache owner could have had the star in the head and been a bigger person
11. The cache size icons are too busy (the size chart isn't needed if done correctly, micro should only have 1 icon, the film container)
12. Shutterbug has small unreadable type and is not the shape of polaroid—if that's something that was meant to be achieved.
13. I think the colors worked in the old icons due to the black wave and type
14. The caches look bad in the badge info section—they don't scale smaller nicely
15. Some of the type doesn't fit within the ribbon—no spacing at ends on several (at least 3)
16. FTF (medal), it's ok, maybe a person running might have given emphasis to urgency for FTF find and would keep more in theme with the rugged cacher. I think the medal works though.
17. Why does the rugged and busy cacher have severed legs?
18. If your not finished with the icons, they shouldn't have been released. I see this product as a work in progress. Hard to win people over with uncompleted work.
19. The traditional cache works at HQ because of color BG. I would make the container green since BG is controlled by level. Like a green fill, white lined border, badge color.
20. The off centeredness of some icons is done incorrectly. Look at HQ's event cache vs the mega here.
21. Event host should just be the HQ design, no person (ie. consistency, why doesn't the Mega not have a person, probably due to legible type, so lose the person in the event icon)
22. Shutterbug: many images are landscape not portrait, at least most of mine that I take.
23. The trackable lover has too many objects. Reduce to either dog tags, or 1 or 2 of each.
24. The diverse cacher circles are not consistently sized, color them
25. Brainiac lightbulb should have light (white) extending, not dark border lines
26. The attribute cacher has more emphasis on the cache, than the attributes. Enlarge the tag and magnifying glass. Maybe lose the cache container.
27. Favorite owner, rework placement of objects.
28. Why are the addon icons so small, and they inconsistently appear? If badges have addons, I would place all the round icons around the badge, and only color/icon fill when achieved. Right now then are hidden achievements. The explainer text should inform users which achievements they are missing (confirmed with missing visuals, hollow/empty circles), and which they have (confirmed with visuals, filled circles). Think of stars for a level on a video game—you know you achieved 1 star and 3 is possible, etc.
29. Addon location should be consistent.
30. Delete "The" in every ribbon. It's unnecessary to communicate, and you need more space in the long ones.
31. I'd bold the type and make it slightly larger in the ribbon—type is too small, smaller than this type here <----

That's a lot to chew on. Hopefully helpful. No disrespect intended. - Chris

For the sake of eventually attaching images. I've made this a new answer, not just a reply.

Really quick sketches:

Diamond Quick Study — quick sketch (shown in regression)
Couldn't help adding color, and then to ribbon. I didn't care for the blue hue.

or or or or or

Ruby Quick Study

or or

All Quick Study

Quick badge color sketch, no color edit for icons (to be clear, most are too dark, since I over-layed images on top of the work). Just trying to relay an idea here is all. Most of the coins icons are too dark.

All these should be cleaned up quite a bit and are just really rough edits of your work appropriated with free imagery. I just didn't want to spend hours redesigning a sketch. Even my line width is inconsistent with yours.

Answer 4 · 2020-02-05T11:53:29+0000

Hi all!

As you may, or may not know, I am the owner of Project-GC. It's my "fault" that everything changed, and I apologize for that, though I still feel that it was the right thing to do.

I won't go into any details here. Clappy and pinkunicorn has been involved in the whole project, and what they have written comes from the team.

You should know that you are now seeing the third iteration, and probably not the final result. Clappy has been excellent to work with and I have full confidence in the fact that he will make it even better.

When I say "even better", I say that because in my opinion, these badges do actually look good, in my eyes. Yes, the background is a bit washed out, we were aware of that, and we (clappy) will see what he can do with it. As he has mentioned though, it's pretty much the same background as the old Badges.

My favorite quote here is this:

I've been looking at them for a few weeks now (the link on the FB-page from a few weeks ago worked the whole time), so maybe it's just a matter of getting used to them? They are much more 'calm' to the eyes I think (the StatBar looks great too!). If the situation was reversed, and the new ones had existed for years, and were changed by the old ones, many people would say there was no need for a change.

I truly believe the second part here is the case. I personally love the BadgeGen design as well, and what I am writing now is in no way meant as criticism for that design, or the work of Kyle. But I do believe the new badges are more thought through, easier to read/understand the icons, and has a more common design with each other. With a few exceptions of course, for example Earth and CITO, which is just waiting for their turn.

For two years I have been trying to update/evolve the Badge-system in different ways. The Addon-system was the primary goal, and I never managed to get it working/looking good with the original Badge-design. Therefore, I felt that a new design, from scratch, was necessary. I still believe that. And that's not because I dislike the original BadgeGen, because I really don't.

During these two years we have actually more than once announced that we have been looking for a designer for new Badges. The response has been super low. Clappy saw the result of that, with our first redesign. Since he didn't like it, he made a few suggestions and sent those over. That's how this cooperation started. What I am mostly impressed by, is that he has managed to design 40 very visually readable icons. That and his patience, independence and his ability to shake of unconstructive criticism. :) Constructive criticism is great though, which we have seen more of the last 24 hours.

The old BadgeGen is still technically available. Currently, anyone who has a paid membership can add the url parameter bgv3 when viewing Profile stats to see their old Badges. Example: http://project-gc.com/ProfileStats/magma1447?bgv3

If it becomes a popular request, we could very well make it available as a standard for those users who wants it. However!

They won't be able to access any of the new features/changes made.
At some point we will lose interest to maintain old code, the fewer that uses them, the sooner we would stop maintaining it.

I personally don't think too many would like to stick with the old when there is a new system which is more feature rich and have more rewards available.

Regarding adjusted requirements. The changes you see is the first iteration of those. It's the biggest, without a doubt, and it shows the direction we want. We will most likely update the requirements at least once more, but then much less. We do have a very conservatory mindset in regards of requirements. For those who don't know it, BadgeGen has also been updated during the years. Some of the requirements there could be considered as having been unbalanced from the start, others because Geocaching has changed. Some good ideas has turned out being silly in the end, because of misbehavior from Geocachers (like The Author). In 1-2 months, we want our new Badge-system to be considered fixed for years to come, at least in regards of requirements for those Badge levels that exists now.

Anyway. I wasn't supposed to go into details already discussed, so I'll stop here. What I really wanted to say is that I will be Live on the podcast GeoGearHeads. Friday 3 am - 4 am CET (the night between Thursday and Friday). You are welcome to join that podcast show and ask me any questions. I can answer things like:

Any technical design decision.
What has been tested and what hasn't.
What we have thought on and haven't.
Changed requirements.
What has been discussed/tried with Clappy.
Parts of what Clappy is planning.
New badges coming.
Removed/merged badges and why.

https://www.facebook.com/GeoGearHeads/videos/634080457355842

PS! If you have great ideas for changes, feel free to make them and attach a screenshot.

Answer 5 · 2020-02-06T00:25:30+0000

I waited for a few days after the new badges appeared to put my two cents in, I'm a grumpy old guy that doesn't like change so my first impression was hit and miss. The new designs were a little "bland" at first glance but I did like the extra functionality including the lack of limits on loops for some badges like the "Matrix" cacher along with the added touches like leap day and FTF on some badges. The new badges are great as well, more challenges to move up a level!

After spending a bit of time looking and getting used to the look of new badges I'm liking them a little more, especially the details of the graphics in some of the badges. Honestly though it's the few with little pops of color that catch my eye first. The GPS maze with some green, blue, and a bit of yellow, the earth cacher, and the environmental cacher. I'm not saying it should look like a unicorn ate a rainbow and passed gas, but a touch of some color might be nice in the other badges if it was a possibility.

That said it seems like a great step forward and whatever the outcome on the look I'm thankful for clappy, pinkunicorn (no relation to the gassy unicorn referenced above, at least as far as I'm aware), magma1447, and of course Kyle and everyone else that had a hand in giving us these badges.

Now to try and plan how to go from 11 to 12 cache types in a day for August.... :p

Answer 6 · 2020-02-03T11:41:09+0000

Not seen these before - so just had a look - sort of agree with the design though that aspect of it for me isn't an issue

I do like the add-on feature -

Not limiting the levels as before (stopped at 9) is likely to make things like logging 36000 TBs / coins that more desireable for those that want to cheat like that.

However I do not see the change a problem - If I am going to say one thing about the new format, possibly make the colours/background a little darker

Answer 7 · 2020-02-04T14:49:06+0000

As with all updates on the internet, the new badge icons will take time to get used to and for minor kinks to get worked out. I do miss the raw goofiness of some of the old badges -- that giant silly brain! -- but the new icons are stylish and some are an undisputed improvement. At the very least I am glad that the badges are not stagnant just for the sake of avoiding change.

There's more of an design emphasis on the color background than the icon artwork, which is a choice. The old ones wrote out "emerald" or "silver" on every single rasterized badge, which was fine but not particularly elegant and certainly not ideal for scalable graphics. Using color alone for the gemstone tiers is okay for the badges, but I would like if there was a gem icon somewhere that made it a bit less of an abstract concept. Maybe add something like that to the column headings on the "Badge Information" breakdown? A blue gem for sapphire, a bronze medal for bronze, etc.

I do wish there was a bit more color in the icon artwork still. More color makes them more easily distinguishable at a glance especially given the newly dominant background colors. I think it would help to have a mystery question mark that is dark blue, a trophy that's silvery or brassy, a brain that's bright pink. The still colorful CITO badge and the Earthcache badge are more successful for that reason, to me. The white ghost for the Virtual badge will stand out more too, if there's color in the others.

As for the achievements themselves, more types of badges have been added! That's good news -- growth is a positive. Looking forward to some kind of a checker that goes with the new All Around badge so I know what degrees I need. (Also I'm glad I don't live right on a coastline -- living in, say, Venice Beach CA, getting degrees 210-300 would be a huge chore!)

Answer 8 · 2020-02-04T17:43:41+0000

Of course, the design is a question of taste, I personally do not mind the new art work. But what is exciting is that the badge system is being developped again. And even more exciting news that Kyle is with us again.

I like the add ons and that the limitation on loops to 9 has been abolished, and I am surprised about some changes in the steps. E.g. from a middle aged cacher I suddenly am a veteran, having reached the diamond badge of "The Caching Veteran" within seconds now instead of another ten years :-).

As others have mentioned before there are some scales where one could reflect about an adaptation, e.g. "The Low Altitude Cacher" (BTW, excellent idea to rename it!), where you basically have to visit Israel/Palestine if you ever want to get into the gemstone area. But once you are there, it will be diamond in one go.

However, the badge I personally see as most problematic is "The Busy Cacher": if we are realistic even on the most simple power trail it is not really feasible to find more than one cache every 5 minutes (taking into account the time to sign the logbook, hide the cache as you should etc.), which means 12 an hour. So if you are caching for 20 hours in a row (without any break) you will have done 240. If you survive mentally and physically that is. Which means that the diamond badge (400) is absolutely unrealistic and the emerald one (270) already highly dubious. Unless you do as many powertrailers seem to do, i.e. not signing the logbooks, logging fake finds or coming with a large group in which everybody e.g. looks for every tenth cache and signs for all the others. But - apart from the obvious ethical questions – what is the fun of this? So, if we are at rethinking the scales I would certainly include "The Busy Cacher" in this. I’d say 150 for emerald would certainly be enough. And for people who really want to go beyond there would always be the loops. (Compare e.g. how easy it is to get a high loop on "The Calendar Cacher" in comparison with getting an upper gemstone badge on "The Busy Cacher" without any dirty tricks.)

While at it, I find it a bit disappointing that the loops have been abolished on "The Author". I see the point about long useless logs. But first, you anyway couldn’t get beyond the second (or perhaps third) loop because geocaching.com does not allow longer logs. Secondly, I do not think I resorted to any artificial inflating techniques to get to the second loop of the badge, so I don’t think looping on the badge necessarily leads to meaningless logs. But that’s a side issue.

In conclusion, as said, a big thumbs up and thanks for all the work!

Answer 9 · 2020-02-04T21:40:21+0000

First of all: I love the new Badges. I've been looking at them for a few weeks now (the link on the FB-page from a few weeks ago worked the whole time), so maybe it's just a matter of getting used to them? They are much more 'calm' to the eyes I think (the StatBar looks great too!). If the situation was reversed, and the new ones had existed for years, and were changed by the old ones, many people would say there was no need for a change. Since almost all Badges are now without a coloured image, I wouldn't mind if the remaining ones that still have colour (Cito, Earth) would change as well, but maybe that's too difficult.

Regarding some of the 'Levels':
- Busy Cacher isn't too problematic I think, we've done 354 in a day, and only used about 15 hours. I hope to get 400+ this year. And yes, all logs were signed by us, we were with 2 persons in 1 car.
- Great solution to stop Author and TB's at 1 Diamond (although I lose my Double Diamond on coins by this :-)).
- The Low Altitude Cacher indeed seems very hard to earn. In Belgium, -11 is the best that is possible...
- I love the new Badges, and am looking forward to other new ones being added (Souvenir Cacher?).
- The add-ons are another great feature, and add some extra challenges!
(is there an add-on for the Cactus-attribute? I saw today that there still exists 1 cache with that attribute, which would be very nice to have one day!)
- For Badges where the same level is required for some Badges (ie 1 GPS Maze gives you Bronze, Silver and Gold), I would change this and just let them go from 1 - 8. This would be problematic for the APE, but a Badge that lives on 3 (2 active) caches is a bit strange too (I have earned that one, so it would hurt to let it go :-))? Maybe this could be replaced by an APE-addon? If Community Celebration Events don't get their own Badge because they can only be earned every few years, the APE shouldn't have a Badge either I believe...

All in all, very nice work, and I am looking forward to the new developments! And remember, it's just a (highly addictive ;-)) game after all :-)!

Answer 10 · 2020-02-03T13:38:06+0000

I personaly agree with new badges or rather new badges system but absolutely disagree with new design

Answer 11 · 2020-02-05T17:27:36+0000

I`m a big fan of the new designs and the new badges, I`d say i probably prefer these to the old ones.

Though i would like the colors to be... brighter? Stand out a bit more compared to the background.

Answer 12 · 2020-02-06T09:53:54+0000

I was, as many others, sceptical at first. However after giving it some time I think change is a good thing and after getting used to them I kind of like the new design. Especially the add-ons.

What I haven't gotten around to yet is the larger sizes makes it harder to get an overview when you get more caches. I think 7 for each row was pretty good and with the addition of newer badges this becomes more of an issue. Just my 2 cents.

Answer 13 · 2020-02-03T10:51:46+0000

Totally agree, bring back the old ones, the new ones are just awful!

Answer 14 · 2020-02-05T20:58:18+0000

Agree...

idea is great, very good new things but the design is just weird.

Answer 15 · 2020-02-06T10:45:40+0000

Since this seems to be the thread to give feedback, another small addition from me:

When hovering over the Badges, some say 'Cacherxxx has yyy and needs zzz more to go up a level'. For other Badges however, the text says 'Cacher xxx has yyy and needs zzz to go up a level'. The zzz for this Badge (ie for Labs) is the number needed to reach the the next Badge (ie you need 600 to reach Emerald on LabCaches), whereas in the first example (ie for Virtuals), the zzz is the number you still need to find to reach the next level (ie I need 26 more Virtuals to reach Diamond status).

I would try to make the text the same for all Badges (where possible, ie for highest and lowest elevation it makes sense to put the lowest number needed to reach the nex Badge).

Answer 16 · 2020-02-06T10:53:11+0000

The new design evokes emotions. When operation system WinXP ended, the situation was similar. We have operation system Win10 now and We go on. Only time will tell, I am for a change.

Answer 17 · 2020-02-07T20:26:04+0000

I like them more and more.

Shure I would like the diamond colour not light blue and some icons are not so good looking or easy to understand.

But with the subbadges, and the numbers higher than 9 and the new badges, I become more friendly with the new badges.

Perhaps try to change the background colour.

Perhaps you can ask here in the forum for suggestions or even a vorting which colours are beeing liked.

Answer 18 · 2020-02-10T10:53:59+0000

I'm trying to figure out, why I don't like the new badge icons as much as the old ones.

Maybe it's because I was so used to the old one and this a big change.
Or maybe it's because they all look kind-of the same and it's hard to quickly differentiate between different badges and level.
The silver one looks like it's grey-out.

What I know for sure is that I don't like the way this change was implemented.
The community should have been given some kind of head-up before the roll-out or at least have an option to opt-out and use the old badges at least until the new ones are out of BETA.

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Can we have the original BadgeGen back please? [closed]

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Really quick sketches:

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