Re: GCAH6T3 - Bingo Challenge

Can I get a checker for the following:

BINGO CARD CHALLENGE

Need to make two lines to complete the bingo on the card. Each square requires you to find a minimum of 250 for each spot on the card.

Cache types: (TR)aditional (UN)known (EA)rthcache (MU)lti-cache (LE)tterbox (EV)ent (WH)erigo (VI)rtual
Cache sizes: (MC) Micro (SM) Small (RE) Regular (LA) Large (OT) Other
Cache DT's : (D1) (D2) (D3) (D4) (D5) (T1) (T2) (T3) (T4) (T5)
(12) Months (31) Days

The 12 months means need to have 250 finds for each of the twelve months
IE 250 finds for all days in January for all years all days in January, etc.

The 31 days means need to have 250 finds for each of the 31 days.
IE: 250 finds on the first for all months all years, 250 finds on the second for all months all years, etc. to 31st

There are 5 class of difficulty. Below is what I have determined to be the items of each difficulty level

Hardest (LA) (VI) (T5) (EV) (EA)
Hard (T4) (MU) (LE) (WH) (D5)
Medium (D4) (12) (RE) (UN) (31)
Easy (T1) (D3) (SM) (OT) (T3)
Easiest (TR) (MC) (D1) (T2) (D2)

What the challeng output will look like:
Generate a 5x5 grid with B I N G O along the top of the 5 columns.
When the geocacher has fulfilled a particular requirement on the card place GREEN dot in that box.
When two lines of 5 have been completed the challenge is complete
Two lines can have a common box between the two lines like in normal bingo's.
The card grid items are listed here below and is designed so that each line will have one of each of the difficulty classes above.

Here is the challenge bingo card

B I N G O
T5 SM D4 T2 LE
12 MU OT LA D1
WH EA TR UN T3
D2 RE T4 D3 EV
T1 MI VI D5 31

Before a scriptwriter is going to spend any time on this we would like to ask you to find out from your reviewer if he is going to publish this challenge.

The problems are:
- The part (31days 250 finds) will not be acceptable
The guidelines only allow a maximum of 12 finds day 1 to 28 and less 29, 30 and 31
Please read https://www.geocaching.com/help/index.php?pg=kb.chapter&id=127&pgid=206#timeLimited

Quote
Requiring more than one find on any day or calendar date, even if cumulative. Example: find 5 caches for every date of the Finds for Each Day of the Year grid.

- Might be classified as a bookkeeping exercise
On occasions we see that HQ is using this statement when there are too many requirements
Please also read https://www.geocaching.com/help/index.php?pg=kb.chapter&id=127&pgid=206#standardForCriteria

Quote
The challenge requirements should be simple, and easy to explain, follow and document. A long list of rules or restrictions may prevent publication.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2023 11:23AM by vogelbird. (view changes)

Hello!

I got a reviewer response on this and was advised ( as you can read ) that this challenge is good.

There are a couple of questions all of which the challenge will abide by as it was always my intention that each item would be checked on there own which would allow for double-counting.

This will be a traditional bingo card type challenge so diagonals are perfectly acceptable.

Here is the response from the reviewer:

[snip]
Good day Adroit Seeker,

Yes, the idea is fine for a challenge cache with a couple notes.

A couple questions. Does the challenge allow double-counting of a cache? ie: if I find 250 D5 T5 LArge VIrtual caches, I can use 250 caches to qualify for all four spots? (D5, T5, LA, VI) If the answer is yes, then there is no issue. If the answer is no, there is a problem with the ease-of-explanation rule. Essentially, if double-counting is not allowed, the challenge becomes too complicated for geocachers to easily figure out what they have to do to complete the challenge. If double-counting is allowed, then that problem is non-existent.

Clarifications (for my sake, and for whoever writes the checker). Are diagonals also allowed? So this can be completed by examples Row 1 and Row 3, or Row 2 and Column 4, or Column 5 and Left-to-Right Diagonal? In the truest sense of BINGO, I assume this to be a yes, but you will want to be explicit when having the checker written.

Next step is to make sure a checker can be written for it. I think I see how it can be done, but I will leave that call to the script writers. :-)

Regards,

frigidfractal - Volunteer BC Reviewer www.geocaching.com
BC Geocache Policies Wiki
Geocaching.com Help Center
[snip]

You did not get an answer on
- The part (31days 250 finds) will not be acceptable
The guidelines only allow a maximum of 12 finds day 1 to 28 and less 29, 30 and 31
Please read https://www.geocaching.com/help/index.php?pg=kb.chapter&id=127&pgid=206#timeLimited

Quote
Requiring more than one find on any day or calendar date, even if cumulative. Example: find 5 caches for every date of the Finds for Each Day of the Year grid.

The 31 days means need to have 250 finds for each of the 31 days.
This would not get appoval from HQ



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/29/2023 07:45PM by vogelbird. (view changes)

In my request for review/approval of the challenge I provided the same notes as was posted here this included:

[snip]
The 12 months means need to have cumulatively 250 finds for each of the twelve months
IE 250 finds for all days in January for all years all days in January, etc.

The 31 days means need to have cumulatively 250 finds for each of the 31 days.
IE: 250 finds on the first for all months all years, 250 finds on the second for all months all years, etc. to 31st
[snip]

Based on the response ( which I posted the entire reviewer response in the thread above ) that "Yes, the idea is fine for a challenge cache with a couple notes." That we have to infer that the reviewer with the lack of commenting otherwise is good with this.

[side note:]

My interpretation of the guidelines is based on "Time Limiting" requirements, IE Finding 12 caches in one day (24 period), or finding 500 caches in one month (IE 30/31 days of one given month/year) These are "Time Limiting" examples, however finding 500 caches in a month over that same month year after year is NOT time limiting as you can continue that goal year after year after year.

Example provided in the guidelines of something that is OK under the "Time Limiting" requirements is:

Quote

Finding some number of caches per day of week, provided the number is cumulative over all years. Example: 100 finds on Mondays.

Since there are 52 Mondays in a year it is impossible to find only one cache on each of those 52 Mondays over all the years cumulative. This is in contrary a violation on your interpretation that states what is not allowed is:

Quote

Requiring more than one find on any day or calendar date, even if cumulative.

The guidelines are relatively vague and at time contradicting and more thought should perhaps be put into making them clearer. I would like to believe that as long as a resonable attempt has been made to create a challenge that is not only doable that it should be considered viable.

Fair enough, lets try https://project-gc.com/Challenges/GCAH6T3/84175

Please test and reply

The output ( for me atleast ) is hard to follow - I could not even tell if it is correct or not.
So I went through each to make sure.

My analysis is that it is not correct.

The BINGO card and criteria placement is important - everyone will have the same card to work with.

Can you create a bingo card grid to simplify the visual

Simular to this:



Now I know you can't to the full graphics of this but I have seen checkers that have grids and have things like the green check marks used.

Because you did not have any score I was confused and used the setup
Hardest (LA) (VI) (T5) (EV) (EA)
Hard (T4) (MU) (LE) (WH) (D5)
Medium (D4) (12) (RE) (UN) (31)
Easy (T1) (D3) (SM) (OT) (T3)
Easiest (TR) (MC) (D1) (T2) (D2)

I have changed it to
B I N G O
A(T5) | B(SM) | C(D4) | D(T2) | E(LE)
F(12) | G(MU) | H(OT) | I(LA) | J(D1)
K(WH) | L(EA) | M(TR) | N(UN) | O(T3)
P(D2) | Q(RE) | R(T4) | S(D3) | T(EV)
U(T1) | V(MI) | W(VI) | X(D5) | Y(31)

The sequence of the config is
A B C D E
F G H I J
K L M N O
P Q R S T
U V W X Y
This is what we use for all the bingo setups

Somebody like carnigrewal qualifies with
ABCDE
FGHIJ
KLMNO
AFKPU
BGLQV
CHMRW
DINSX
EIMQU

Thanks, but it still needs a 5x5 grid summary visual like a bingo card - can you do this?

Not sure why at the end there is a list a the aphabet with nothing beside each - what is that for?

A 5x5 grid summary visual like a bingo card is not possible at the moment because it is not part of the multitest script.

Maybe bmuzzin can have a look at this when he is back from holiday

I'll have a look at making the bingo output into a grid. But as vogelbird said, I am on vacation, so it will likely take a few weeks.

https://project-gc.com/Challenges/GCAH6T3/85065

I have also long thought that the bingo output and configuration is terrible... they're not that popular, and I suspect they'll be accepted less and less by reviewers... but here goes. I implemented a new one - which also does a bunch of error checking, and also has an ACTUAL bingo card (2D output). Each square has a pass or fail icon (or a maybe icon, if that's your thing), and then if a cell is part of a pass row/column/diagonal then it gets coloured green (or yellow, if it's a maybe pass). Note that, you can still specify exactly which patterns match, so this one doesn't include the diagonals as requested. If you don't specify any patterns, then it assumes it's "normal" bingo card.

Anyhow - check it out and let us know.

Regardless (@vogelbird), might be good to use this script for bingos going forward (and if it needs any improvement, I'll handle it).

@bmuzzin - Great job I will certainly start using it

A small detail on this one you switch the vertical and horizontal on the bingo card

The request is

Just like me - I screw up some mundane detail! I've transposed it now... after losing the whole tag and having to redo it :)

This thread has not received any further feedback and will therefor be moved to ARCHIVE Checker requests (completed). Should the requester have any queries he can raise his question on this thread in the archived section,