Re: GC9G6FC - A Geocachers Dozen - Challenge

The requirements for this challenge is you must have found a dozen (12) months of caches (a years worth) with each day of a selected month all having one of the of the following that can be chosen:

Types: Traditional, Multi's, Puzzle, Virtual, Letterbox, Earth Caches, Wherigo's

Rating: 1.0, 1.5, 2.0, 2.5, 3.0, 3.5, 4.0, 4.5, 5.0 (Matching D/T values)

Size: Large, Regular, Small, Micro, Other

Once the month has been filled that particular type/rating/size it can not be be used again.
Also a cache can only be used once whether it be for the type or rating or size.

The months can be cumulative over all the years one has been caching, and leap year is not required.

Here is an example of qualifications:

Month         Type/Rating/Size
========      =============
January	       Micro
February       Puzzles
March	       2.0
April          3.0
March	       Regular
May	       1.5
June	       2.5
July           Small
August	       Other
September      1.0
October        3.5
November       Multi's
December       Traditional

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2022 08:16AM by Adroit Seeker. (view changes)

The challenge conditions do not lend themselves to a simple tag, so I believe a new script would be required.

Ii marked this topic as a new script required for a volunteer scriptwriter who is willing to spend time on this

Hmm has this one got everyone stumped?

I'm sorry but the coding of this goes well beyond my capability but your remark will not motivate the volunteer scriptwriters to dig into writing of a new script

I see how you could interpret my comments in a negative manner. It was not my intent to disrespect you or anyone with that comment and for that I apologize.

I honestly figure that it is a difficult script to design and that it truly is a larger undertaking and will take some time to write.

I am sure that I will get some update regarding the request to keep me advised of what progress is being made.

Thank You

hi, I have written a script here:
https://project-gc.com/Challenges/GC9G6FC/65715
however, it seems this challenge is very tricky - I couldn't find many people that qualified, including you. mondou2 is the only person I found that does so far. I think it is checking correctly, so perhaps it needs a change?
To help, I've added the values for which you qualify onto the html for each month. the output is far from finalised yet :)

Thank you DrAcorn for working on this script.

Do you check the D/T ratings first to see how many types are qualified for the month. Then block that cache from being available for the Size test which is before testing for the Type test?

It appears that the Rating is harder to get than the Size and looks like the Types (Traditional’s / Unknown / Multi’s ) are the most common.

It would help to know of each how much has been done for each month. Giving one the ability to see what they need to finish off that mode of requirement. It might be that only a couple of days are needed for the month to finish off day Virtual or Other or D/T 2.5. However this might be too much output to supply?

Perhaps we could try loosening the Rating restriction to any Difficulty or Terrain value so long as the D or T value is the same for the month?

For example D=3.0 where both a finds are D=3.0 and the T=1.0 and another the T=2.5 would qualify. The same rule would apply for the Terrain

Not sure if that will make the script harder or easier but it would provide more options to satisfy the challenge requirements.

Let me know what you think/suggest trying?

Cheers!

How the script works is it checks for each month which of the values have been found on each day of each month then finds a combination that works.
I have made the rating change that you suggested so that difficulties and terrains are counted separately, and it does mean you now qualify :)
What I could do for the output is list all of the qualifying values for each month, then also values that have over perhaps 20 days for each month too? May take a couple days before I am free to do this.

Thanks for making the change so quickly - glad to know I qualify with the changes done.

The link to the checker provided before is disabled so I can’t check/run it at this time.

It would be nice to see for each month what combinations are done and see which months/combinations are 20+ days complete and the days needed to complete are (hopefully the output is not too long) this would help those who do not qualify see where they could focus there attention to towards completing the challenge.

I would like to try/see if we change the D/T requirements slightly, in between the original request the the one the you now have done to this: D/T has to be within the same range combination, where the ranges are 1.x, 2.x, 3.x, 4.x, 5.x

For example a cache of D/T 2.5/2.0 and another cache of D/T 2.0/2.0 and another with D/T 2.0/2.5 and another with D/T 2.5/2.5 will satisfy the requirement for D/T 2.x

I think this ups the challenge some what - hopefully I still qualify (if not with the output of days 20+ We will see how far I am from qualifying.

I do appreciate your time and effort put into this challenge checker I think we are close to having one done.

If you have any comments or suggestions please don’t hesitate to ask me. I want to work with you in making this a good challenge.

I think I now have it working well. It was only disabled so I could work on it :)

For the output, if you qualify, then it simply shows your qualifications.

If you don't qualify, then first it shows the values you do qualify for for each month, then the values within 5 days of being completed (I figured 10 would make the output very long in some cases).

I've also implemented the DT change so that any cache with the specific D or T counts. You do happily still qualify!

If you want any other changes to the conditions or output just say :)

Thanks - it is looking great! We are almost there!

Just want to confirm a couple of items since I can not see any of the raw details to confirm it is working correctly.

Are you using my first criteria where the D/T all have to have the same rating 1.5/1.5 to qualify for D/T 1.5?

I thought when you did this that I did not qualify (not sure how close I was)?

Was there a logic flaw in the script that has now been fixed which now shows that I do qualify under my initial request?

If you are using the original request - then perhaps the challenge is not as challenging as I was hoping for and perhaps we could go with one additional change which is that when qualifying for the one D/T rating (IE: D/T 1.5 - where all the caches in the month have the D/T of 1.5/1.5) then the D/T 1.0 would not be available to use in another month. This means that for any given months the D/T of 1.x can be only be used once. So where where I qualify for D/T 1.0 for one month and D/T 1.5 in another month this would not be allowed and the D/T's that one can use for the months in the year are just 5 (D/T 1.x, 2.x, 3.x, 4.x, 5.x)

Which I expect that 80% of the people who qualify would end up having 4 types, 4 sizes and 4 D/T's

I expect that I will not qualify for this (which is okay - it gives me something to focus on and complete before I can publish the challenge), but I would like to see how close I am to qualifying.

Thanks again for all your effort working on this script and helping me make it a really good challenge.

Sorry my mistake - I must have read your request wrong as any cache that had D1 or T1 regardless of the other rating would pass. It is now corrected so that for example for D/T1.x, a cache would need to be DT 1/1, 1/1.5, 1.5/1 or 1.5/1.5. I hope this is now correct!
You're right that now you don't yet qualify.

Sorry to bud in but I think you are making this challenge too difficult to get this published. You will need at least 10 local cachers to pass the challenge before a reviewer will look at this. Looking at the top cachers it will be diffucult to find one.

It is hard to find people who qualify when you can only run it 10 times but I did find 2 that do so far, will keep looking (10 tries a day) :-(

In the meantime is it possible to change for those who do not qualify display from 5 to 10 as it will help me to determine if I am to loosen the challenge how I might go about it while still making it a good challenge.

In our area people like a good challenge and the challenges I have done in the past are all doable without having to travel to complete yet most people do not initially qualify giving the local veterans a challenge to work towards (albeit not as much as a newbie would have), but I have been asked by many when my next challenge will be coming out as they are looking for something to work on.

So although I know I have to ensure that the challenge can be obtained by 10 locals I can and will get 10 people to qualify for it.

Having the display for more than 5 would help me to tweak this challenge or help in getting the 10 locals to qualify.

I know that creating this checker in itself has been a challenge and I do very much appreciate it - we are very close to having it done.

Cheers!

okay, I have changed it so any month within 10 days of being complete is shown now.

I've found 4 in Arizona that meet requirements
philbeer
2 Sonians
KennyV
leeny_c

so I couldn't get one published here :(
Phil

Adroit Seeker don't you also need to qualify?
You don't meet the current challenge conditions...
Phil

Again I want to thank everyone for there help and constructive comments regarding this challenge checker.

I just realized that I forgot a size of "Not Chosen" to be included in the list of other size allowed.

Not sure but it does not look like it is in the list - which is my bad cause I completely forgot it.

If we add it to the list it will help with the qualifications.

I think however in order to increase the number of people that will qualify (or soon able to) that the DT criteria needs to be relaxed a bit, however not too much.

So here we go ....

The DT of 1.x, 2.x, 3.x, 4.x, 5.x each can only be used once for any of the 12 months but the qualifications is changed.
You now can have a month of DT=1.x where either all the Difficulty is either 1.0 or 1.5 and the Terrain can be any value or all the Terrain is either 1.0 or 1.5 and the Difficulty can be any value. Same qualification for 2.x, 3.x, 4.x, 5.x which I think will enable more people to qualify in the higher 3.x and 4.x and possible the 5.x

This change along with the addition of the "Not Chosen" size should enable enough people to qualify. So this should be close to completion. Hopefully the changes are clear, however let me know if you have any questions.

Oh and so everyone knows if I don't qualify for my own challenge , I will make it my challenge to get myself qualified as soon as possible. However I suspect with the above changes that I will now qualify. I hope :-)

just to make sure i've understood correctly for DT, you are saying you'd need all the days to be difficulty or all the days to be terrain - a mixture of both would not qualify?

Yes, Here is an example of the DT=3.x qualification

Caches of D/T 3.0/4.5, 3.5/1.0, 3.0/2.0, 3.0/3.0... (for the month) would qualify for a DT=3.x
or
Caches of D/T 1.5/3.0, 2.0/3.5, 1.0/3.0, 4.0/3.0, 3.5/3.0 ... (for the month) would also qualify for a DT=3.x
however
Caches of DT 3.0/1.0, 2.5/3.0 would not qualify since neither all the D or T ratings are in the 3.x range.

so all the D or T for the month have to have the 3.x rating to qualify. Once the DT=3.x is used for a month it can not be used for any other month in order to complete the challenge qualifications

Hope this clarifies it, if not let me know.

I think I have now updated it correctly - let me know if I have misunderstood :)

Can we check on the logic being used for the DT. I find it odd that for each month that I do not qualify for a DT that is within 10 left to qualify that I need the same D/T rating for each day.

For example I need on Feb 24 either a D 3.x/anything or a T 3.x/anything which then I would qualify for a T3.x and a D3.x
and for Feb 5,12,13,14,16,17,18,20,22,23 I also only need a D 4.x/anything or a T 4.x/anything which then I would qualify for a T4.x and a D4.x

I would expect to see different days for the D3.x over the T3.x and the same for T4.x over the D4.x

Some months I would qualify for one of he DT but not for both.

Also we can add Adventure Labs to the cache types - people should be able to use these also for a qualification option.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2022 12:29AM by Adroit Seeker. (view changes)

sorry for the delay, bit busy at the moment :)
I have now included lab caches for you.
I reverted a few changes that I think were wrong, from my understanding, the only thing that is wrong now is that the checker still lets you qualify with T3 and D3 for different months, for example. can you check this to make sure I'm understanding and i'll correct it.

Thanks for adding the Adventure Labs into the checker.

However the DT is still not correct.

When qualifying one can only use either a D or T of the same rating

Looking at my qualifications (current checker)

You qualify!
Jan: Small
Feb: T2.x
Mar: Regular
Apr: D3.x
May: D2.x
Jun: Multi-cache
Jul: Micro
Aug: Unknown Cache
Sep: Traditional Cache
Oct: Other
Nov: T3.x
Dec: T1.x

I can use either Feb: T2.x or May D2.x but not both (same for the Apr: D3.x and Nov: T3.x only can use one of these).

What I was referring to in my last message is on the months where I did not meet the DT requirements I always did not qualify on the same day(s) for the same DT rating. Which I find hard to believe is true.

I did think that, just making sure before I spent time on it :)
I have now updated it to take this into account, hopefully this works for you now.

Thanks for updating the checker, I am excited to try it out.
However the checker is locked - not sure if your currently working on it or forgot to unlock it.

My apologies - I did forget!

The checker appears to be working, however I am still searching for a limited pool of people to test it with that have completed it, so it will take me a bit of time to confirm it is working and okay -

There are a hand full of people in the area that area "relatively" close to completion, and I am working with them to complete the requirements (also myself, which I should be also soon done) once I have an adequate pool of members who qualify I can be more certain that it is working correctly.

So far the only item which is incorrect is the sentence that says the number of months that have less than X days to go is saying 5 days when I think it is displaying 10 days

This is the line that I think needs to say 10 days:

"Here are the values for each month that you have less than 5 days to go for:"

Glad it’s only this small error now and that hopefully the checking part is good! Updated now.

Thanks DrAcorn,

The challenge checker appears to be working, based on who I have ran it against - still trying to find others who qualify and getting some that are close, to work on getting qualified.

One last thing that I think others will like, is even after one qualifies for this can we still display other types that are within the 10 day threshold so that people could use it to see what other types that can continue to fill/work post qualifications.

Cheers, Adroit Seeker

Updated.

I see that the NOT CHOOSEN cache size is no longer an option when setting up new caches and in place of it is the new VIRTUAL cache size that comes with both the Virtual and Earth Cache types. can we add VIRTUAL cache size to the checker (not to be confused with the Virtual cache type that we have also). Both can be used independently of the other so I suspect the checker will have to have a Virtual-Type and VIRTUAL-Size label (or something like this)

I should be qualifying for my challenge this month and getting close to a list of others who qualify so it should not be long until I get this published.

Thanks once again for all the work you have done putting this together.

Just to clarify, you want all of NOT CHOSEN, VIRTUAL and OTHER sizes to count differently?

That is correct

Updated.

Can we add one last tweak to this challenge in that a maximum of 10 caches from cache owner can be used in any of the monthly qualifications.

You can not use the owner criteria in a challenge because this isn't an acceptable criteria in article 2.12.10 of the hiding guidelines

Please read https://www.geocaching.com/help/index.php?pg=kb.chapter&id=127&pgid=206#criteria
Not acceptable

Quote
hese cache page elements: cache titles, cache owner, GC Codes, publishing Reviewer, or cache page text.

Okay I finally qualify for my own challenge and I have put the challenge cache in the queue for a reviewer to review prior to publication.

I feel that this challenge checker is good.

I have been requested by the reviewer that the challenge checker output has to be clearer before they will allow it.

Here is what the reviewer stated:
[snip]
The checker does not easily provide info that can help a geocacher work towards completion.

For example, when I run it for my player account, I don't see any mention of Adventure Labs, Wherigos, Multi-caches, puzzles/mysteries, letterboxes, or virtual. I see that it's says I don't have any month with fewer than 10 days to meet the requirements, but that doesn't help me meet those requirements. I think it should show every result regardless of whether there's fewer than 10 days remaining in a month for that requirement or not.

The checker doesn't use each requirement once. It's currently showing me that I can use Traditional Cache for every month of the year - in spite of it being only allowed once for the challenge. What if I want to use something for one month, but the checker is using it for a different month?

Rating: 1.x, 2.x, 3.x, 4.x, 5.0 (Matching Difficulty or Terrain values but not combined)
What does this mean?? The checker shows D/T1.x (Difficulty and Terrain) for my player account for March - that looks like it's combined doesn't it? Does it include 1.5, 2.5, 3.5, 4.5 D & T ratings? It's not clear whether or not you can use both D2.x and T2.x in different months.

When checking your progress, it shows this:

You qualify!
Jan: Small
Feb: D/T4.x
Mar: Other
Apr: Lab Cache
May: Multi-cache
Jun: D/T2.x
Jul: Regular
Aug: D/T3.x
Sep: Unknown Cache
Oct: D/T1.x
Nov: Micro
Dec: Traditional Cache

How is anyone to know whether February, June, August or October is using the D or T rating? Or if it's combining them?

Basically, the requirements need to be rewritten to be crystal clear.
And I think the checker should document what a geocacher needs to do to meet the challenge.
[snip]

I know that creating output for all the possible ways that one can work on qualifying for the challenge could run into processing time restrictions. If we cannot output all the modes not completed for each month, then perhaps we could open the window from within 10 days to perhaps 15 or 20 days, and/or ensure that each mode of qualification is listed at least once where one does or does not qualify.

Can we state when qualifications for the D/T that it is a D or T type qualification. ie for me the February month is a D4.x qualification.

Since this was moved into completed, I don't think you'll get an answer.. . You'll have to put in another request.
Phil